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ross coldheart is an australian

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investigative journalist for programs

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like 60 minutes and he's one of the few

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acclaimed journalists to take the

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phenomenon of ufos seriously his new

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book in plain sight is an investigation

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into ufos as well as ostensibly

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impossible physics and is linked below

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click on the timestamps if you'd like to

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skip this intro for those of you who are

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new to this podcast my name is kurt

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jaimungle i'm a filmmaker with a

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background in mathematical physics

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dedicated to the explication of what are

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called theories of everything from a

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theoretical physics perspective but as

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well as delineating the possible

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connection consciousness has to the laws

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of physics provided these laws exist at

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all and are knowable to us i'm a callow

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novice in this area and thus most of my

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questions would be callow which is why i

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generally turn it to the audience who

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comprise people far more knowledgeable

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on the topic of ufos than myself my

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angle is with regard to theoretical

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physics particularly unification and

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with regard to consciousness some don't

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have the time to watch a two-hour

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podcast on the topic of ufos or a 2.5

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hour podcast on not theory in quantum

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field theory or a four hour podcast of

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chris langan's ctmu or have time to

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watch a seven hour video on the topic of

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consciousness such as that with leo gura

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which is why there's a second channel

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called toe clippings it's essentially

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shareable ingestible 2 minute to 15

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minute bites the link to that channel is

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in the description or you can search toe

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clippings on youtube though be prepared

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for the repugnancy that follows if you

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enjoy engaging and witnessing real-time

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conversation on the topics of physics

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psychology consciousness and so on then

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check the description for a link to the

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discord and the subreddit there's also a

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link to the patreon that is patreon.com

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kurtjmungle as the patrons and the

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sponsors are all that allow me to do

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this full time it would be near

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impossible for me to have conversations

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with fidelity on the topics of loop

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quantum gravity string theory geometric

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unity is coming up at some point if not

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for your support thank you and that link

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again is patreon.com

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with regard to sponsors there are three

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the first sponsor is algo algo is an

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inception in fact amjad has a channel

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now a podcast about artificial

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intelligence and its connections to

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business as well as consciousness so if

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below and subscribe to his podcast as by

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as well the second sponsor is brilliant

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you think of stephen hawking's favorite

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places many of you have asked how to

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platforms like patreon and visiting the

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is one way to do that more on them later

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thank you and enjoy this podcast with

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ross coldheart

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can you speak

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oh no brown cow one two three four five

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six seven eight nine okay so we'll go

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okay if you can

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hear

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this see this

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then type in senzu bean

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senzu bean

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so ross is this your first

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item of the day or did you have some

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other tasks you got to before this

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it's my first item of the day i've just

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rolled out of bed to be honest kurt and

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uh have my my first my first coffee of

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the day as well

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great great great okay all right it

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seems like we're live

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so the first question comes from aaa

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ross you've linked cattle mutilations to

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uaps and

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he's he's wondering if you have heard of

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human mutilations potentially with

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special force assistance

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look there's a lot of claims uh i mean i

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think the most substantive evidence that

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i've seen today that substantiates that

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there is indeed a danger for humans

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posed by uaps is the kolaras brazil

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incident

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uh which my friend james fox the

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filmmaker is currently investigating in

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brazil

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but um yes i i do think there's a link

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between cattle mutilations and the

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phenomenon whatever it is i don't know

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i have been absolutely

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swamped

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animal carers up and down the east coast

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particularly in australia since i aired

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the story of mick and judy cook who live

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up near gimpy in far north queensland in

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australia

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and they've suffered i think they know

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of the loss of 15 cattle but as far as i

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know there's been no human

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uh

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woundings or or killings or whatever

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in this part of the world and i i shake

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my head as i say that because it just

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sounds preposterous you know we're

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talking about animals being mutilated

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for some reason

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and uh

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i wish i could understand the phenomenon

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i don't know what it is

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but um i've seen up close uh

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the kind of injuries that these animals

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suffer

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and they're not

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injuries that can be caused by

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a simple scalpel or even a

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laser cutter or

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all manner of things that you think

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would be able to do that kind of

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operation you're talking about

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completely exsanguinated bloodless

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animals

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that sometimes within a few minutes are

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found with key organs missing from their

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bodies with no apparent disruption to

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the other organs and

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the one that really shocked me was a a

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very well respected veterinarian in far

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northern new south wales about 10 hours

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north drive of where i live

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and he told me that he was doing an

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autopsy on a cow that was found dead in

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a paddock

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in a field and um he in order to do that

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in a paddock in a field

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the british term paddock yeah australian

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but uh and he moved the two stomachs

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to get to the third stomach

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and then he discovered that the third

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stomach wasn't there

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and he sent me the autopsy records and

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the photographs to show what

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what he saw and

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as he said to me he said ross i can't

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think of any way

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he says if anybody's ever done an

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autopsy on a car that's how you do it

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that's how you get to the third stomach

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you have to lift aside the other two

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stomachs

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and he said

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i've never seen anything quite like it

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because when he got to that third cavity

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it just it was empty something had

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removed the stomach

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and

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i wrestled with it to be honest i

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wrestled as a journalist with whether i

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should link cattle mutilations to the

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so many people have contacted me since i

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feel very much vindicated in terms of

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making that decision i just can't

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explain it but in terms of human

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mutilation the ones that i do know of

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are the brazil calaras case i've spoken

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what was it spanish or portuguese she

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speaks both but uh

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she spoke to uh some military people

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that uh uh

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gave me a bit of a background on kolaris

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and i'm really thrilled to hear that

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the town where a lot of this happened in

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brazil and i'm really excited to see

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alien alcoholic asks have you heard of

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facilities that are housing live

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okay

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now i have a question about those human

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mutilations have you read robert dolan's

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book on the different it's like a

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taxonomy of aliens like a speciation

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i have i have not you mean richard dolan

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or uh uh yeah richard

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yeah

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uh no i haven't i've read a few books by

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richard notably the two volumes of

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national security state but um

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i haven't read uh his taxonomy of ufo of

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aliens no i haven't

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the reason i'm asking is that he would

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say there are different kinds so one is

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a gray then the other

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seems to be lizard one seems to be

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human-esque

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and i'm curious if the human mutilations

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are tied to a specific type that is to

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say are there friendlier types and

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i don't know

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kurt you you've got somebody who starts

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i work on evidence you know i i i don't

279
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even know if i accept that there are

280
00:10:24,790 --> 00:10:22,240
reptilians or grays or whatever i mean i

281
00:10:26,710 --> 00:10:24,800
haven't seen them so frankly i i i just

282
00:10:30,550 --> 00:10:26,720
don't know whether to buy into that what

283
00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:30,560
i can tell you is i accept that there is

284
00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:32,720
a genuine mystery

285
00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:34,480
that there is an anomalous

286
00:10:37,670 --> 00:10:36,560
phenomenon that is manifesting itself to

287
00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:37,680
humanity

288
00:10:43,350 --> 00:10:40,399
uh it's now being detected by very high

289
00:10:45,430 --> 00:10:43,360
tech sensor systems and the pentagon has

290
00:10:47,030 --> 00:10:45,440
admitted it's real what they haven't

291
00:10:49,829 --> 00:10:47,040
admitted when we're talking about human

292
00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:49,839
mutilations is um cattle mutilations and

293
00:10:54,230 --> 00:10:52,480
human mutilations but privately you know

294
00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:54,240
people and also i noticed chris mellon

295
00:10:57,990 --> 00:10:55,680
actually went on the record with me in

296
00:10:59,590 --> 00:10:58,000
my documentary he he acknowledged for

297
00:11:01,590 --> 00:10:59,600
example that mutilations were a

298
00:11:02,630 --> 00:11:01,600
phenomenon that was real

299
00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:02,640
um

300
00:11:07,990 --> 00:11:05,920
but when it comes to taxonomy of aliens

301
00:11:10,069 --> 00:11:08,000
i'm not there yet you know i'm not even

302
00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:10,079
sure this is alien

303
00:11:14,069 --> 00:11:12,160
there's a phenomenon

304
00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:14,079
i'm not even sure i mean i've spoken to

305
00:11:18,949 --> 00:11:15,920
friends who've told me that

306
00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:18,959
that they have witnessed uh

307
00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:20,480
uh

308
00:11:23,910 --> 00:11:22,320
non-human

309
00:11:26,790 --> 00:11:23,920
entities up close

310
00:11:28,389 --> 00:11:26,800
uh i don't know i just don't know

311
00:11:30,150 --> 00:11:28,399
and and really

312
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:30,160
uh i think you just you as a scientist

313
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:32,160
would understand this is i find it very

314
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:34,240
hard to believe anything until i've seen

315
00:11:39,269 --> 00:11:37,200
multiple corroboration and um you know

316
00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:39,279
verified experimentation to prove what

317
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:41,040
i'm seeing is real

318
00:11:45,030 --> 00:11:42,880
because if you accept

319
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:45,040
that and this is the case if you accept

320
00:11:49,269 --> 00:11:46,720
that the under secretary for the

321
00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:49,279
department of defense was um

322
00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:51,519
uh prepared for a briefing there was a

323
00:11:55,590 --> 00:11:53,920
briefing prepared called which included

324
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:55,600
a series of power points and one of them

325
00:12:00,870 --> 00:11:57,920
was slide nine

326
00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:00,880
and on that slide it talked about how

327
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:03,200
the pentagon was advising or people

328
00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:05,279
inside the pentagon were advising the

329
00:12:08,069 --> 00:12:06,959
under secretary for the department of

330
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:08,079
defense

331
00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:10,399
that whatever the phenomenon is

332
00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:12,800
it is capable of manipulating human

333
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:15,440
perception and consciousness

334
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:17,839
and if you accept that

335
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:19,920
i mean i'm not detracting from the

336
00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:22,160
claims that people are making about

337
00:12:27,190 --> 00:12:25,120
seeing aliens or seeing life forms or

338
00:12:29,030 --> 00:12:27,200
seeing entities of some kind

339
00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:29,040
but if you accept that how do we know

340
00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:31,680
what they're seeing is real

341
00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:33,120
now i'm not saying it's all a

342
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:35,120
hallucination or an illusion you know

343
00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:37,680
i've had some very angry

344
00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:41,279
experiences or abductee claimants who

345
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:43,440
have jumped on me in the last few weeks

346
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:45,200
for supposedly criticizing their

347
00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:48,079
experience i'm not but what i'm saying

348
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:49,760
is we have to approach this with a

349
00:12:54,629 --> 00:12:51,440
reasonable degree of scientific

350
00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:54,639
objectivity so i'm not yet ready to say

351
00:12:59,430 --> 00:12:57,440
this is little green men or reptilians

352
00:13:01,590 --> 00:12:59,440
or grays or

353
00:13:03,670 --> 00:13:01,600
tall whites or whatever

354
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:03,680
i've spoken to people who claim to have

355
00:13:08,389 --> 00:13:05,600
had these experiences but unless i can

356
00:13:10,870 --> 00:13:08,399
verify them

357
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:10,880
this is the problem i have with a lot of

358
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:13,440
experience that claims i'm not in their

359
00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:15,839
bedroom i mean i i had a conversation

360
00:13:23,190 --> 00:13:18,720
with a guy who is

361
00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:23,200
sorry was very very senior in the fbi

362
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:25,040
during my research

363
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:27,120
and i i expected to make this sort of

364
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:28,880
hard-headed

365
00:13:33,829 --> 00:13:31,680
skeptic about the phenomenon

366
00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:33,839
instead he told me that he woke up in

367
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:35,040
the middle of the night and he and his

368
00:13:39,910 --> 00:13:37,920
wife were paralyzed and there were gray

369
00:13:41,430 --> 00:13:39,920
big-headed big-eyed aliens sitting at

370
00:13:44,629 --> 00:13:41,440
the end of the bed

371
00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:44,639
and he told me this incredible account

372
00:13:49,269 --> 00:13:46,560
and and trusted me to keep his name

373
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:49,279
confidential but he wanted me to know it

374
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:50,800
was real

375
00:13:54,150 --> 00:13:52,079
and

376
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:54,160
i said to him but how do you know it was

377
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:55,920
real you know how do you know you

378
00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:57,360
weren't in a

379
00:14:02,949 --> 00:14:00,000
some kind of induced dream state

380
00:14:04,790 --> 00:14:02,959
and uh he told me a few things that made

381
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:04,800
me think that maybe he was having a

382
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:06,720
genuine experience but

383
00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:08,880
then i said to him well the phenomenon

384
00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:10,880
is capable allegedly

385
00:14:15,030 --> 00:14:12,720
reportedly of

386
00:14:17,829 --> 00:14:15,040
manifesting itself in different ways to

387
00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:17,839
humans in the 19th century when people

388
00:14:23,590 --> 00:14:20,160
looked up in the sky and saw ufos they

389
00:14:25,829 --> 00:14:23,600
were looking at flying airships flying

390
00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:25,839
ships in the sky

391
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:28,160
in the book of ezekiel they described

392
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,560
winged chariots

393
00:14:34,470 --> 00:14:32,160
you know there's been a phenomenon going

394
00:14:36,629 --> 00:14:34,480
back thousands of years but how do we

395
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:36,639
know that whatever it is

396
00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:37,680
it's not

397
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:39,920
manifesting itself to us in ways that

398
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:42,480
allow our brains to comprehend it

399
00:14:45,990 --> 00:14:44,399
and manipulating our perception and

400
00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:46,000
indeed our consciousness

401
00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:47,600
that's the only question i ask when

402
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:50,079
people start talking about um

403
00:14:53,670 --> 00:14:51,360
uh you know

404
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:53,680
taxonomy of aliens or whatever how do we

405
00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:56,399
know what they're seeing is physically

406
00:15:00,550 --> 00:14:58,720
what's there

407
00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:00,560
speaking of how we know this question

408
00:15:04,230 --> 00:15:02,800
comes from stan allister

409
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:04,240
it's a question i'm sure you've gotten

410
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:05,760
plenty of times and something you've

411
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:08,000
thought about yourself which is

412
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:09,600
there are many there are billions of

413
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:11,440
smartphones

414
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:13,519
why is it that there aren't clear videos

415
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:16,480
or clear photos

416
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:18,399
even though there are clear photos of

417
00:15:22,550 --> 00:15:20,320
anomalous events let's say unexpected

418
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:22,560
events that are rare such as certain

419
00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:24,320
meteorites

420
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:25,600
there's a few ways to answer that

421
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:28,240
question the first is that um he's

422
00:15:31,749 --> 00:15:29,519
absolutely right

423
00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:31,759
there should be more images there should

424
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:34,000
be more videos taken

425
00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:34,800
but

426
00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:36,240
one of the things that

427
00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:38,320
i was struck by when i started looking

428
00:15:44,069 --> 00:15:41,680
at the claims that have been made and

429
00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:44,079
i've also spoken to people

430
00:15:47,749 --> 00:15:46,639
in various three-letter agencies about

431
00:15:50,310 --> 00:15:47,759
this

432
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:50,320
it is quite clear

433
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:51,600
that

434
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:54,000
the phenomenon is capable i think one of

435
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,079
the fab observables that uh louis

436
00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:58,320
lozando described was that the

437
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:01,519
phenomenon is capable of remotely

438
00:16:06,069 --> 00:16:04,079
interfering with human technology

439
00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:06,079
and robert salas for example described

440
00:16:10,710 --> 00:16:08,320
to me the minuteman missile launch

441
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:10,720
commander from the 1960s described to me

442
00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:11,440
how

443
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:13,199
whatever the object was

444
00:16:18,470 --> 00:16:15,920
it was able to manipulate remotely

445
00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:18,480
the control systems for his icbm

446
00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:20,480
missiles and shut them all down one by

447
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:22,800
one i've had conversations with people

448
00:16:26,389 --> 00:16:24,480
in russia who told me about similar

449
00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:26,399
things in russia but it was even more

450
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:28,240
frighteningly the other way

451
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:30,480
all of a sudden their missiles went up

452
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:33,120
online and were rolled ready ready for

453
00:16:37,829 --> 00:16:35,279
launch literally one button push from

454
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:37,839
launch so something is capable of

455
00:16:40,949 --> 00:16:39,199
remotely

456
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,959
affecting the

457
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:42,480
human technology

458
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:44,720
i know that's mind-boggling and as a

459
00:16:49,269 --> 00:16:46,880
hard-headed journal i find it incredible

460
00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:49,279
that i'm having these conversations but

461
00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:51,120
this is what the pentagon has been

462
00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:52,240
advised

463
00:16:55,189 --> 00:16:53,440
this is the thing that i find

464
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:55,199
interesting is that a lot of the

465
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:57,279
skeptics and the debunkers have not yet

466
00:17:02,790 --> 00:16:59,680
caught up with with all respect to them

467
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:02,800
the evidence that is being gathered to

468
00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:05,919
show that the pentagon

469
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:08,319
is aware of things that this phenomenon

470
00:17:12,549 --> 00:17:11,280
can do that cannot be explained by known

471
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:12,559
technologies

472
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:13,600
and so

473
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:15,760
coming back to the question

474
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:18,480
a human camera i would have thought

475
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:20,400
operates electromagnetically it's quite

476
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:21,760
clear that there are aspects to the

477
00:17:25,909 --> 00:17:23,520
phenomenon that are

478
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:25,919
fundamentally electromagnetic is it

479
00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:28,000
remotely possible that they are capable

480
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,240
of meddling with our technology that

481
00:17:34,630 --> 00:17:32,400
they're capable of um

482
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:34,640
affecting our capacity to take good

483
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:37,200
photographs i've struck kurt by the

484
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:39,120
number of times that i've spoken to

485
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:41,120
people who've witnessed the phenomenon

486
00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:42,240
up close

487
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:43,919
and i've said to them why the hell

488
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:45,600
didn't you take a photo you know you

489
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:47,600
were there you had a bloody camera

490
00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:50,000
and they go you know that's weird i

491
00:17:55,110 --> 00:17:51,840
it didn't occur to me

492
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:55,120
that has happened time and time again

493
00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:56,960
and it's interesting because

494
00:18:01,990 --> 00:17:59,200
there's a series of incidents up around

495
00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:02,000
a place called north west cape a very

496
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:03,440
remote

497
00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:06,559
military base in western australia

498
00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:08,799
called the harold e holt naval

499
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:11,280
communications station which was an

500
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:14,160
american base until 1991

501
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:15,679
1992

502
00:18:19,270 --> 00:18:17,760
and i've spoken to three people who've

503
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:19,280
witnessed the phenomenon in that part of

504
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:22,160
the world and each one of them describes

505
00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:24,960
this kind of weird feeling where

506
00:18:29,029 --> 00:18:26,480
they've actually forgotten about their

507
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:29,039
experience until in one case two years

508
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:30,000
later

509
00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:31,840
nikolai the guy that i was talking to

510
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:33,919
was telling me that he'd seen a an

511
00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:36,000
object by the side of the road like a

512
00:18:41,909 --> 00:18:39,440
car standing on its end a big solid

513
00:18:44,470 --> 00:18:41,919
oval that was clearly metallic of some

514
00:18:45,909 --> 00:18:44,480
kind but glowing emitting some kind of

515
00:18:47,590 --> 00:18:45,919
plasma glow

516
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:47,600
and he said he didn't even remember it

517
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:49,840
until two years after the fact

518
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:51,840
so i keep on coming back to the fact

519
00:18:55,270 --> 00:18:53,440
that one of the things that we just have

520
00:18:56,870 --> 00:18:55,280
to acknowledge is that the pentagon is

521
00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:56,880
being advised

522
00:19:01,510 --> 00:18:59,120
the u.s department of defense is being

523
00:19:03,669 --> 00:19:01,520
advised by the people who know

524
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:03,679
from the office of the under secretary

525
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:05,600
of defense intelligence probably louis

526
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:07,120
lozando and his team while they were

527
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:09,600
working on atip but also other people

528
00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:12,720
i'm advised including the uap task force

529
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:14,880
they're being advised that whatever this

530
00:19:17,909 --> 00:19:16,480
phenomenon is

531
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:17,919
it's psycho

532
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:20,160
psychometric

533
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:23,039
psychotronic psychotronic weaponry it

534
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:24,960
has the capacity to meddle with our

535
00:19:29,830 --> 00:19:27,679
minds and to middle with our technology

536
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:29,840
so i i don't think it's entirely outside

537
00:19:35,909 --> 00:19:32,640
the realm of possibility that um cameras

538
00:19:39,029 --> 00:19:35,919
are a bit of a doddle for um whatever it

539
00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:39,039
is to interfere with

540
00:19:41,830 --> 00:19:39,919
ross

541
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:41,840
speaking of meddling i'm curious of you

542
00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:43,360
as a journalist maybe it's a selfish

543
00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:45,280
question on my part by investigating

544
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:47,120
this phenomenon have you had the

545
00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:49,440
government come to you and tell you to

546
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:50,880
speak or not speak about certain

547
00:19:54,470 --> 00:19:53,280
subjects have you had your phones tapped

548
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:54,480
in any

549
00:19:57,909 --> 00:19:56,240
have you had your emails

550
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:57,919
well emails are tapped to some degree

551
00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:59,440
already but

552
00:20:03,110 --> 00:20:01,440
i think you understand what i'm asking

553
00:20:05,590 --> 00:20:03,120
yeah i don't understand miller dramatic

554
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:05,600
but i i think any journalist who does

555
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:07,679
the kind of work that i do i do a lot of

556
00:20:11,669 --> 00:20:09,600
national security a lot of defense and a

557
00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:11,679
lot of intelligence work i just

558
00:20:17,029 --> 00:20:14,480
naturally assume that my phones are off

559
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:17,039
all the time that somebody's listening

560
00:20:20,789 --> 00:20:18,400
one of the things that people need to

561
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:20,799
understand is that signal

562
00:20:23,990 --> 00:20:22,480
which is an app that a lot of people use

563
00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:24,000
in the belief that it's totally and

564
00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:27,760
utterly safe is absolutely compromised

565
00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:29,840
i know they'll dispute this but my

566
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:31,760
understanding is that the five eyes have

567
00:20:35,430 --> 00:20:33,360
the capacity to

568
00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:35,440
access the signal encrypted

569
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:37,280
communication system and probably all

570
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:39,840
the others for quite a few years

571
00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:42,080
people who are interested in this should

572
00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:43,280
read

573
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:46,320
a series of articles about the cia's

574
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:48,640
penetration of a company called crypto

575
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:51,200
aeg which was a um

576
00:20:55,110 --> 00:20:52,799
a company in western europe i think it

577
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,120
was german or swiss swiss

578
00:20:59,750 --> 00:20:57,600
uh which for years sold some of the best

579
00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:59,760
encryption equipment in the world and it

580
00:21:02,789 --> 00:21:01,120
turned out that it was totally

581
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:02,799
compromised and the cia had had a

582
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:05,520
backdoor into the technology for years

583
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:08,320
so people like me assume as a matter of

584
00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:10,320
course that our

585
00:21:14,020 --> 00:21:13,280
communications are compromised i i've

586
00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:14,030
learned from

587
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:15,600
[Music]

588
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:17,280
people in the intelligence services

589
00:21:23,590 --> 00:21:21,120
about ways to communicate very safely

590
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:23,600
i mean a few tips if you're not using a

591
00:21:27,909 --> 00:21:26,320
vpn you're insane

592
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:27,919
and you should use that vpn in

593
00:21:32,810 --> 00:21:29,520
conjunction with

594
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:32,820
good quality encryption technology

595
00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:34,240
[Music]

596
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:36,640
i also use

597
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:39,360
message boards online

598
00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:41,440
in the dark web to communicate with some

599
00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:43,600
of my better sources

600
00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:45,760
but have i had warnings from government

601
00:21:51,990 --> 00:21:49,430
uh

602
00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:52,000
no in fact i've had encouragement i've

603
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:54,720
had encouragement from people in

604
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:57,120
both australia's intelligence services

605
00:22:01,909 --> 00:22:00,320
and enormous encouragement from

606
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:01,919
people in america

607
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:03,760
because i think frankly uh what's my

608
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:05,760
best interpretation of why this has been

609
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:07,840
kept a secret because it has there's

610
00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:09,440
been a cover-up for years let's be

611
00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:11,600
honest about this i don't know exactly

612
00:22:15,510 --> 00:22:12,960
what they're covering up but they've

613
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:15,520
been covering stuff up for years

614
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:17,360
why have they covered it up

615
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:25,190
the majority of people who are aware of

616
00:22:31,029 --> 00:22:28,480
the phenomenon inside certainly the five

617
00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:31,039
eyes that's australia new zealand

618
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:32,080
canada

619
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:34,159
the uk and the us

620
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:36,000
the majority of people who are aware of

621
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:37,840
the phenomenon inside the five eyes

622
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:39,919
aren't briefed into the ultra secret

623
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:41,200
material

624
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:44,320
so to them it's a genuine mystery

625
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:46,240
and the people that i've spoken to in

626
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:47,520
the main

627
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:51,600
to at least at the very beginning of my

628
00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:52,640
research

629
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:54,080
were people who were prepared to

630
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:56,240
privately acknowledge to me that yes the

631
00:23:00,630 --> 00:22:58,799
phenomenon is real

632
00:23:01,990 --> 00:23:00,640
but with bugatti if we can understand

633
00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:02,000
what it is

634
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:04,080
and uh

635
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:04,960
you know

636
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:07,039
i've spoken to people for example in our

637
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:08,480
intelligence and defense here in

638
00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:10,559
australia who've told me that

639
00:23:16,630 --> 00:23:13,280
you know there are objects mainly orbs

640
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:16,640
but but also craft routinely seen around

641
00:23:20,950 --> 00:23:18,480
some of our more sensitive defense

642
00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:20,960
installations particularly pine gap

643
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:23,440
which is the really super secret base in

644
00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:24,960
the middle of australia that we run

645
00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:28,000
jointly with america

646
00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:28,720
and

647
00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:30,640
they've said to me

648
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:32,960
that frankly their view is the reason

649
00:23:35,669 --> 00:23:34,320
it's not talked about is because

650
00:23:37,270 --> 00:23:35,679
governments are kind of embarrassed

651
00:23:38,390 --> 00:23:37,280
about admitting it

652
00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:38,400
that that

653
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:39,840
you know we're spending billions of

654
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:42,080
dollars a year for national defense and

655
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:44,400
the protection of our population i think

656
00:23:48,549 --> 00:23:46,480
america has spent over a trillion

657
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:48,559
dollars since 9 11.

658
00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:51,360
and to what effect if there is this

659
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:53,919
technology this intelligent technology

660
00:23:58,149 --> 00:23:55,360
operating in our

661
00:24:01,750 --> 00:23:58,159
skies our oceans and our atmosphere as

662
00:24:03,430 --> 00:24:01,760
and our orbit um to what effect is this

663
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:03,440
money being expended if frankly

664
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:05,120
governments can't protect the public

665
00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:06,960
against whatever it is or at least

666
00:24:11,350 --> 00:24:09,600
inform the public of whatever it is

667
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:11,360
so i guess i'm giving you a very

668
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:12,960
long-winded answer but i want to give

669
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:15,200
you a a kind of a cultural understanding

670
00:24:19,510 --> 00:24:18,000
of where i sit i think most people that

671
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:19,520
i've spoken to in defense of

672
00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:21,840
intelligence in agencies that should

673
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:22,640
know

674
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:24,400
privately admit to me that they are as

675
00:24:28,149 --> 00:24:26,640
confounded by the mystery as you and i

676
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:28,159
are

677
00:24:33,990 --> 00:24:31,039
but i have also spoken to people who

678
00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:34,000
privately admit that they know more and

679
00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:36,720
that the us knows a great deal more but

680
00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:39,840
that the united states has a very close

681
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:41,600
hold on that information

682
00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:45,120
and it's it's more than top secret sci

683
00:24:48,870 --> 00:24:47,440
this is something that is very very

684
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:48,880
closely guarded

685
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:50,480
and that the number of people that are

686
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:53,039
actually briefed into it inside the

687
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:54,640
military defense intelligence

688
00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:56,320
infrastructure in the united states is

689
00:25:00,070 --> 00:24:57,919
actually very few

690
00:25:02,310 --> 00:25:00,080
it doesn't include presidents and it

691
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:02,320
doesn't include congress which i find

692
00:25:05,190 --> 00:25:03,840
breathtaking

693
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:05,200
um so

694
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:06,880
yeah i mean i hope that answers your

695
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:08,559
question

696
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:10,400
sure you also mentioned you were

697
00:25:13,029 --> 00:25:12,080
encouraged by some of the people in the

698
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:13,039
government

699
00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:14,960
now when i was speaking to jim i'm not

700
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:16,480
sure if you saw this but i was speaking

701
00:25:20,549 --> 00:25:19,200
with brian keating and tom delong and

702
00:25:22,950 --> 00:25:20,559
jim semivan

703
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:22,960
i'll link that in the description and in

704
00:25:26,470 --> 00:25:25,200
that conversation jim said when i asked

705
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:26,480
him how do you distinguish between

706
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,320
psyops or disinformation campaigns and

707
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:30,480
so on he said that the cia doesn't

708
00:25:34,789 --> 00:25:32,640
conduct disinformation campaigns anymore

709
00:25:34,789 --> 00:25:36,549
it's illegal right

710
00:25:39,669 --> 00:25:37,830
that's just such a i mean i've no

711
00:25:43,990 --> 00:25:39,679
disrespect to tom i mean

712
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:44,000
i'm sorry i'm a keen student of cia mi6

713
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:46,240
sis and australian disinformation over

714
00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:47,840
the years and one of the things you have

715
00:25:52,510 --> 00:25:50,400
to be wise to as a journalist that

716
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:52,520
covers intelligence matters is

717
00:25:58,230 --> 00:25:56,080
disinformation is part and parcel with

718
00:25:59,909 --> 00:25:58,240
great respect of how organizations like

719
00:26:01,750 --> 00:25:59,919
the cia operate

720
00:26:03,990 --> 00:26:01,760
and for heaven's sake we need them i

721
00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:04,000
mean we need disinformation

722
00:26:07,269 --> 00:26:04,960
um

723
00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:07,279
i mean the sad fact is that the cia was

724
00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:09,200
a victim of disinformation going into

725
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:10,960
the iraq war i mean one of the biggest

726
00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:13,200
catastrophes in recent time

727
00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:15,679
was the disinformation that was spun by

728
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:17,919
ahmed chalabi and the iraqi national

729
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:20,559
congress to entice america into an

730
00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:22,559
invasion of iraq on the false premise

731
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:23,679
that there were weapons of mass

732
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:24,880
destruction

733
00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:26,240
and the

734
00:26:30,070 --> 00:26:27,760
the thing that i don't think has been

735
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:30,080
adequately explored around the world is

736
00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:32,720
the fact that america itself and britain

737
00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:34,799
and australia were all victims of one of

738
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:36,480
the most clever disinformation

739
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:38,720
operations in recent time

740
00:26:42,470 --> 00:26:41,039
so the notion that intelligence services

741
00:26:45,669 --> 00:26:42,480
don't and aren't still using

742
00:26:48,390 --> 00:26:45,679
disinformation to me is incredibly naive

743
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:48,400
disinformation is how intelligence

744
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:49,919
operates

745
00:26:53,110 --> 00:26:51,679
and one of the things i'm wise to as a

746
00:26:55,590 --> 00:26:53,120
journalist is

747
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:55,600
this is why i you know i've had people

748
00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:57,919
tell me for example that there are

749
00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:58,880
craft

750
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:01,600
non-human technology sitting in

751
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:03,760
warehouses somewhere in america

752
00:27:07,110 --> 00:27:04,880
now

753
00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:07,120
a lot of people in ufology when i say

754
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:08,799
that they think i'm saying yeah that's

755
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:11,760
real i believe it's real i don't

756
00:27:15,909 --> 00:27:14,080
i can't nobody should

757
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:15,919
nobody should believe any of this until

758
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:18,000
they've seen it with their own eyes and

759
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:19,440
until we've actually literally kicked

760
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:21,840
the tyres of the tr-3b if it does have

761
00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:22,799
tyres

762
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:25,760
but frankly we we have to be skeptical

763
00:27:29,750 --> 00:27:27,440
because one of the plausible

764
00:27:31,510 --> 00:27:29,760
explanations for me in my mind about why

765
00:27:33,029 --> 00:27:31,520
america might be talking about this

766
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:33,039
stuff now is because it's worried about

767
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,440
a confrontation with china and maybe

768
00:27:39,510 --> 00:27:37,600
it's trying to send a message to china

769
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,520
that it has some ace in the whole

770
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:41,840
technology perhaps derived from alien

771
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:44,399
technology that it's it's capable of

772
00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:46,240
using and pulling out of the barrel if

773
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:48,720
it needs to in a confrontation

774
00:27:53,110 --> 00:27:50,880
and uh you know frankly people have told

775
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:53,120
me that is the case but i'm not going to

776
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:55,120
believe it until i see it because

777
00:28:02,149 --> 00:27:57,279
disinformation is so

778
00:28:04,870 --> 00:28:02,159
so wild uh in intelligence uh you know

779
00:28:06,149 --> 00:28:04,880
i i've been liked to so many times by

780
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:06,159
spies

781
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:08,480
and as journalists you just you just

782
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,760
have to

783
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:11,279
walk away because the first thing

784
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:12,960
they're wanting you to do is get really

785
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:16,000
excited and go oh wow you know i've been

786
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:18,320
told this by a real spy and i can

787
00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:20,159
remember very early on in my career when

788
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:21,919
i did meet my first people who were

789
00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:23,440
working in intelligence i was actually

790
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:26,159
based in southeast asia and

791
00:28:30,549 --> 00:28:29,200
i met a cia station chief in a certain

792
00:28:32,389 --> 00:28:30,559
asian country

793
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:32,399
and i was flattered to be a young

794
00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:34,320
freelance journalist and being taken out

795
00:28:39,909 --> 00:28:35,919
for a lunch in a restaurant i couldn't

796
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:39,919
afford by a guy who i knew was agency

797
00:28:43,029 --> 00:28:41,840
and then i realized because i'd been in

798
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:43,039
possession of

799
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:45,520
information the week before i was being

800
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:46,559
lied to

801
00:28:49,750 --> 00:28:48,240
and he wanted me to push a particular

802
00:28:51,430 --> 00:28:49,760
line to support

803
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:51,440
a particular opposition group in a

804
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:53,440
particular company country

805
00:28:56,789 --> 00:28:55,120
and realized that in the moment while

806
00:28:59,430 --> 00:28:56,799
you were speaking with them i did and i

807
00:29:01,909 --> 00:28:59,440
realized i was being manipulated and and

808
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:01,919
that this is something we all have to be

809
00:29:07,590 --> 00:29:05,120
wise to in ufology i mean it may very

810
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:07,600
well still be and i really hope this is

811
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:09,919
the case if this is true

812
00:29:15,750 --> 00:29:12,720
it may very well still be that america

813
00:29:17,909 --> 00:29:15,760
really does have anti-gravity technology

814
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:17,919
you know maybe they've developed this on

815
00:29:22,070 --> 00:29:19,840
their own and maybe it's got nothing at

816
00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:22,080
all to do with aliens and maybe there's

817
00:29:27,669 --> 00:29:25,039
been a clever disinformation program

818
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:27,679
uh to try and spread the uh

819
00:29:30,710 --> 00:29:28,720
the uh

820
00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:30,720
the notion around the world that america

821
00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:33,120
is invincible because uh

822
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,520
it's somehow got alien technology

823
00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:37,440
i mean i i just don't know

824
00:29:41,190 --> 00:29:39,120
but i think we should really keep an

825
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:41,200
open mind i mean i i

826
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:44,720
i was amused i got a uh a bollocksing

827
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:46,080
from some

828
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,279
dweeb

829
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:49,200
debunker the other day who said i

830
00:29:54,870 --> 00:29:52,240
believe in aliens and i believe in ufos

831
00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:54,880
i don't necessarily what i'm doing is

832
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:56,640
i'm exploring the mystery which is what

833
00:30:01,430 --> 00:29:58,960
journalists should be doing and there's

834
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:01,440
a fundamental misunderstanding here i

835
00:30:04,870 --> 00:30:02,960
think this is one of the things that has

836
00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:04,880
scared journalists off

837
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:07,039
because

838
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:09,760
there's a tendency i think for people to

839
00:30:11,909 --> 00:30:11,120
assume that

840
00:30:13,909 --> 00:30:11,919
uh

841
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:13,919
because i'm engaging with the subject

842
00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:17,039
matter and taking it seriously and i do

843
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:19,120
think it should be taken seriously that

844
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:21,120
i believe credulously everything that

845
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:22,559
everybody says

846
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:24,880
i'm sorry but i i don't and i don't

847
00:30:29,350 --> 00:30:27,360
think we should

848
00:30:31,990 --> 00:30:29,360
do you think part of the reason for this

849
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:32,000
ridicule this jiving from large media

850
00:30:36,789 --> 00:30:34,080
organizations against publishing

851
00:30:38,710 --> 00:30:36,799
anything related to ufos is

852
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:38,720
related to chomsky's manufacturing

853
00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:40,399
consent there's this relationship

854
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:42,240
between the media and the government a

855
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:45,360
symbiotic or you can see it as parasitic

856
00:30:48,789 --> 00:30:46,799
look i've been in

857
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:48,799
on completely unrelated issues i've been

858
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:50,799
in editor's offices

859
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:53,760
in news media organizations when i'm in

860
00:30:59,669 --> 00:30:55,760
possession of highly sensitive

861
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:59,679
information i i once did a story

862
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:00,480
for

863
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:02,240
one of australia's top public affairs

864
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:04,480
programs called four corners on the

865
00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:07,200
public broadcast at the abc and

866
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:09,440
by complete chance there was a lot of

867
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:11,760
unhappiness inside our equivalent of the

868
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:14,240
cia asus the australian secret

869
00:31:17,430 --> 00:31:15,919
intelligence service

870
00:31:22,870 --> 00:31:17,440
and a number of

871
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:22,880
went public with me on national

872
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:24,960
television and one of the things they

873
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:27,440
talked about was

874
00:31:32,149 --> 00:31:30,240
favors that we would do plausibly but

875
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:32,159
deniable favors that we would do for

876
00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:34,720
either the brits or the americans which

877
00:31:38,070 --> 00:31:36,240
gave the brits

878
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:38,080
plausible deniability or the americans

879
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:39,840
plausible liability

880
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:42,720
in the event that anyone got caught

881
00:31:45,509 --> 00:31:44,320
or in the event that the operation

882
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:45,519
became public

883
00:31:49,509 --> 00:31:47,600
and a lot of this involved bugging of

884
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:49,519
warsaw pact embassies during the cold

885
00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:52,480
war you know if if you wanted a bug

886
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:54,720
planted in the uh embassy of the polish

887
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:56,240
republic

888
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:58,240
uh you know during the cold war you got

889
00:32:02,070 --> 00:32:00,000
the aussies or the kiwis to do it or the

890
00:32:03,350 --> 00:32:02,080
canadians funnily enough your crc was

891
00:32:05,669 --> 00:32:03,360
very involved

892
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:05,679
and so the the junior cousins in the

893
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:08,159
five eyes alliance were basically used

894
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:09,919
as um

895
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:12,720
stooges to to go around doing plausibly

896
00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:15,840
deniable favors and i can remember

897
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:16,960
when we

898
00:32:20,710 --> 00:32:18,960
did that story we actually edited it

899
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:20,720
off-site because we were aware that

900
00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:22,480
there were people inside the public

901
00:32:26,549 --> 00:32:24,640
broadcaster who probably did report back

902
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:26,559
to the security services what was coming

903
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:29,600
up on programs like ours so we kept it

904
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:31,600
off the books and we kept it super super

905
00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:32,960
confidential

906
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:34,960
and then in the wake of the program one

907
00:32:38,470 --> 00:32:36,240
of the things that we revealed for

908
00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:38,480
example was that um and i still to this

909
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:41,039
day i find it amazing because

910
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:44,640
we were sending our tech ops boys guys

911
00:32:48,870 --> 00:32:47,120
who bugged rooms with highly

912
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:48,880
sophisticated bugs

913
00:32:53,269 --> 00:32:52,240
to kuwait at the end of the 1991 gulf

914
00:32:54,470 --> 00:32:53,279
war

915
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:54,480
to bug

916
00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:56,880
kuwaiti government offices so that

917
00:33:00,950 --> 00:32:58,320
british government

918
00:33:02,870 --> 00:33:00,960
companies could win contracts in kuwait

919
00:33:04,630 --> 00:33:02,880
against australian companies

920
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:04,640
and so these spies were saying to me why

921
00:33:07,909 --> 00:33:06,080
are we doing this you know we're being

922
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:07,919
paid money by

923
00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:10,240
britain to bug kuwait government

924
00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:11,679
officers without the knowledge of

925
00:33:15,909 --> 00:33:14,080
australian spy masters and these

926
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:15,919
plausibly deniable favors are being done

927
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:17,200
in such a way that they're actually

928
00:33:20,630 --> 00:33:19,120
competing against australian companies

929
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:20,640
for the same contracts that are being

930
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:21,840
awarded

931
00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:23,200
and another thing that was happening was

932
00:33:27,029 --> 00:33:25,360
that in the period prior to the handover

933
00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:27,039
in hong kong

934
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:29,600
you know incredibly sensitive

935
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:31,919
negotiations were going on between the

936
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:34,559
british held hong kong and the chinese

937
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:35,760
government and there were chinese

938
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:37,760
government offices in hong kong

939
00:33:43,110 --> 00:33:40,799
and the the british wanted to know what

940
00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:43,120
the chinese negotiating position was and

941
00:33:46,310 --> 00:33:43,840
so

942
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:46,320
they planted bugs in the chinese

943
00:33:50,789 --> 00:33:49,200
government's offices in hong kong

944
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:50,799
and the people who did that were

945
00:33:54,230 --> 00:33:52,960
australians and we revealed that on this

946
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:54,240
program

947
00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:56,640
and i can remember oh my god the

948
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:59,200
pressure we came under uh as a tv

949
00:34:02,789 --> 00:34:00,480
network especially because we were a

950
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:02,799
government-owned broadcaster

951
00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:04,159
i thought for a while i was going to go

952
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:06,799
to jail because um you know you know we

953
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:09,119
were revealing national secrets and we'd

954
00:34:13,349 --> 00:34:10,800
essentially encouraged people who were

955
00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:13,359
under a security oath to reveal what

956
00:34:17,669 --> 00:34:14,800
they knew

957
00:34:19,030 --> 00:34:17,679
and the the nice thing about it was

958
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:19,040
i'm sure they'd still dispute this to

959
00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:21,679
this day but there were reforms made in

960
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:23,520
the accountability procedures of the

961
00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:25,200
intelligence services to improve

962
00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:26,720
themselves as a result of what we

963
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:28,800
revealed and it was a good healthy purge

964
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:30,000
frankly

965
00:34:37,349 --> 00:34:34,159
but what it taught me was the

966
00:34:39,750 --> 00:34:37,359
level of undisclosed communication that

967
00:34:41,829 --> 00:34:39,760
occurs between government and a news

968
00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:41,839
organization even a public broadcaster

969
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:44,720
like the abc in australia or your cbc in

970
00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:46,720
canada

971
00:34:52,149 --> 00:34:49,280
there are informal chats there are

972
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:52,159
informal relationships and

973
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,079
it's

974
00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:56,159
i'm sure there is surveillance of

975
00:35:00,790 --> 00:34:57,680
journalists in this country i've had

976
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:00,800
reason to believe over the years that

977
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:03,599
yes i am being tapped from time to time

978
00:35:08,710 --> 00:35:07,119
i often do sensitive investigations that

979
00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:08,720
upset governments and i guess i just

980
00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:10,079
take it for granted that they're going

981
00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:12,240
to monitor me uh and one of the things

982
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:14,960
that i'm agonized about is making sure i

983
00:35:18,790 --> 00:35:16,960
protect sources this is one of the big

984
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:18,800
problems for me when i was writing my my

985
00:35:21,829 --> 00:35:19,680
book

986
00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:21,839
you know you you agonize about making

987
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:23,119
sure that if you're going to approach

988
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:24,560
somebody and invite them to give

989
00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:26,000
information

990
00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:27,760
um you know you need to be able to

991
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:29,200
protect them you have an ethical

992
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:31,440
responsibility to protect them

993
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:32,240
and

994
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:34,800
i've worked out ways of doing this in

995
00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:36,640
the course of my research for the book

996
00:35:38,950 --> 00:35:37,680
that

997
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:38,960
i hope have protected the

998
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:40,560
confidentiality of some of my more

999
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:42,160
sensitive sources

1000
00:35:44,390 --> 00:35:43,599
but

1001
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:44,400
yes

1002
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:47,280
uh there is

1003
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:51,119
a nexus between media organizations and

1004
00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:52,320
government

1005
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:54,400
when it comes to intelligence related

1006
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:55,680
matters

1007
00:36:01,349 --> 00:35:57,680
that makes it very very difficult for me

1008
00:36:04,069 --> 00:36:01,359
to say that we are absolutely free

1009
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:04,079
and i've seen compromises made inside

1010
00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:06,160
organizations when we've got

1011
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:08,560
big stories which i find

1012
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:10,800
kind of puzzling and irrational and it

1013
00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:13,520
wreaks to me that somebody's ahead of me

1014
00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:15,200
i had an incident once where i was

1015
00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:17,839
investigating um

1016
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:19,200
uh

1017
00:36:23,990 --> 00:36:21,520
what are called disruption operations

1018
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:24,000
there were refugees coming on boats from

1019
00:36:30,069 --> 00:36:26,880
indonesia across to australia and i

1020
00:36:32,069 --> 00:36:30,079
stumbled by complete chance across a

1021
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:32,079
people-smuggling disruption operation

1022
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:33,920
being run by

1023
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:35,040
i thought

1024
00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:36,800
federal police

1025
00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:38,640
and it was done in conjunction with

1026
00:36:42,310 --> 00:36:40,800
members of our defence forces

1027
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:42,320
and it was only belatedly that i

1028
00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:44,240
discovered that it was being done

1029
00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:47,040
also in conjunction with our isis uh

1030
00:36:50,790 --> 00:36:49,119
secret intelligence service and you know

1031
00:36:53,190 --> 00:36:50,800
there was some pretty pretty grubby

1032
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:53,200
things being done to stop boats from

1033
00:36:57,430 --> 00:36:54,720
getting to australia

1034
00:36:59,510 --> 00:36:57,440
to disrupt people smuggling operations

1035
00:37:01,030 --> 00:36:59,520
and that's the scariest i've ever been

1036
00:37:03,190 --> 00:37:01,040
in my career

1037
00:37:05,270 --> 00:37:03,200
when i think one morning i came into my

1038
00:37:07,349 --> 00:37:05,280
office early and

1039
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:07,359
i turned on my computer it had just been

1040
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:09,520
in sleep mode and i suddenly realized

1041
00:37:14,790 --> 00:37:11,920
that the cursor on my screen

1042
00:37:17,109 --> 00:37:14,800
was moving through files

1043
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:17,119
and i wasn't touching it

1044
00:37:20,470 --> 00:37:18,079
and

1045
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:20,480
more importantly whoever the person was

1046
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:23,119
when i did take control of the cursor

1047
00:37:27,030 --> 00:37:24,640
in the two or three minutes before they

1048
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:27,040
realized that they'd been compromised

1049
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:28,880
i realized that whoever they were had

1050
00:37:33,349 --> 00:37:31,119
super user status they were logged into

1051
00:37:34,790 --> 00:37:33,359
my system as a super user

1052
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:34,800
and i could get into anywhere on the

1053
00:37:38,230 --> 00:37:36,560
network into places that i couldn't

1054
00:37:40,150 --> 00:37:38,240
normally get into

1055
00:37:41,829 --> 00:37:40,160
and i still remember i rang the it

1056
00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:41,839
department and i said

1057
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:43,200
um

1058
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:44,880
guys are you in my computer and they go

1059
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:46,560
no and i said

1060
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:48,800
i've got this weird thing where the

1061
00:37:52,069 --> 00:37:50,480
curse is moving on its own accord and

1062
00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:52,079
they told me to check your mouse you

1063
00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:53,280
know all these silly things turn your

1064
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:55,200
computer on again and off again

1065
00:37:59,030 --> 00:37:56,480
and then um

1066
00:38:00,630 --> 00:37:59,040
and then i said yeah but i can get into

1067
00:38:02,550 --> 00:38:00,640
x-file

1068
00:38:04,710 --> 00:38:02,560
and i didn't say i'm not saying here

1069
00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:04,720
what that file was but suffice to say

1070
00:38:07,829 --> 00:38:06,480
the network at the time that i

1071
00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:07,839
the network that i worked for at the

1072
00:38:12,069 --> 00:38:09,920
time was owned by a billionaire called

1073
00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:12,079
kerry packer and i realized that not

1074
00:38:15,990 --> 00:38:14,400
only did i get into all of the files in

1075
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,000
the news network i could also get into

1076
00:38:20,310 --> 00:38:18,400
all of the files in his business network

1077
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:20,320
and i remember i sent this to the it guy

1078
00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:21,839
and i could hear him running down the

1079
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:24,640
corridor towards my office and then both

1080
00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:26,400
of us watched as

1081
00:38:32,069 --> 00:38:28,880
this cursor moved across my screen

1082
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:32,079
and then eventually just disappeared

1083
00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:34,079
and so somebody was on my computer and

1084
00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:35,760
it's the one time i've been aware as a

1085
00:38:39,589 --> 00:38:37,359
journalist that somebody was actually

1086
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:39,599
accessing my material and i can tell you

1087
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:41,920
i was scared it was a really scary time

1088
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:43,280
because um

1089
00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:45,040
you know you realize that when the

1090
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:47,680
forces of the state are deployed

1091
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:49,920
on intelligence matters there's a degree

1092
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:52,000
of ruthlessness and a degree of

1093
00:38:56,790 --> 00:38:54,240
willingness to break laws

1094
00:38:58,790 --> 00:38:56,800
to act unethically and improperly

1095
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:58,800
because they are sanctioned to break

1096
00:39:03,109 --> 00:39:01,200
laws intelligence services are allowed

1097
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:03,119
to do things that other sections of the

1098
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:05,119
government aren't allowed to do

1099
00:39:08,069 --> 00:39:06,320
and um

1100
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:08,079
it scared me it scared me as a

1101
00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:10,320
journalist and for a while there you

1102
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:11,520
know i stayed away from the whole

1103
00:39:15,589 --> 00:39:12,880
subject matter because it was quite

1104
00:39:19,510 --> 00:39:15,599
intimidating the funny thing is that

1105
00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:19,520
with the phenomenon with ufos uaps

1106
00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:20,880
when i've

1107
00:39:25,990 --> 00:39:24,079
engaged with people at a senior level in

1108
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:26,000
government and after

1109
00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:27,359
a fair

1110
00:39:31,829 --> 00:39:29,440
period of chatting about other things i

1111
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:31,839
introduced the subject of uaps

1112
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:34,160
there's two things i expect the first is

1113
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:36,400
ridicule no laughter

1114
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:38,160
and the second is a complete reluctance

1115
00:39:42,310 --> 00:39:39,599
to engage

1116
00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:42,320
and you know what neither has happened

1117
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:45,040
i've been quite surprised i've spoken to

1118
00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:46,960
ministers and former ministers in our

1119
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:48,880
government

1120
00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:50,800
i've spoken to people in our

1121
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:53,599
intelligence and defence services

1122
00:39:57,589 --> 00:39:55,440
and when i raised the subject of

1123
00:40:00,470 --> 00:39:57,599
anomalous phenomena

1124
00:40:02,310 --> 00:40:00,480
they're immediately engaged

1125
00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:02,320
and it might be

1126
00:40:07,109 --> 00:40:04,720
exactly and it made me realize as a

1127
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:07,119
journalist how badly we've dropped the

1128
00:40:10,390 --> 00:40:09,359
ball on this because

1129
00:40:15,109 --> 00:40:10,400
there was

1130
00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:15,119
very deliberate disinformation program

1131
00:40:19,510 --> 00:40:16,720
instituted by

1132
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:19,520
particularly the cia in the 1960s and

1133
00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:21,119
the 1970s

1134
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:22,880
and for all i know it might have been

1135
00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:24,400
for quite laudable reasons because

1136
00:40:27,829 --> 00:40:26,160
apparently um

1137
00:40:30,069 --> 00:40:27,839
especially during project blue book they

1138
00:40:31,990 --> 00:40:30,079
were just getting swamped all of the

1139
00:40:33,910 --> 00:40:32,000
different agencies that were responsible

1140
00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:33,920
for monitoring foreign

1141
00:40:38,230 --> 00:40:36,160
incursions into america were getting

1142
00:40:40,069 --> 00:40:38,240
swamped with the sightings of anomalous

1143
00:40:41,829 --> 00:40:40,079
objects and and you can see in the

1144
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:41,839
paperwork that there was a growing

1145
00:40:44,790 --> 00:40:43,760
concern that they weren't able to get on

1146
00:40:47,430 --> 00:40:44,800
top of

1147
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:47,440
in the event of a a soviet attack they

1148
00:40:52,230 --> 00:40:50,400
wouldn't be able to get on top of

1149
00:40:54,069 --> 00:40:52,240
which warnings were legitimate which

1150
00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:54,079
warnings were just this weird anomalous

1151
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:55,839
phenomena that nobody really wanted to

1152
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:57,119
talk about

1153
00:41:00,630 --> 00:40:58,640
and uh

1154
00:41:02,470 --> 00:41:00,640
i can sort of understand why they wanted

1155
00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:02,480
to shut it down to me that's a semi

1156
00:41:06,790 --> 00:41:04,640
plausible reason and it's interesting

1157
00:41:09,670 --> 00:41:06,800
because when i've when i have

1158
00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:09,680
engaged with people about this in um

1159
00:41:12,069 --> 00:41:10,720
government

1160
00:41:14,069 --> 00:41:12,079
i've actually been very pleasantly

1161
00:41:16,309 --> 00:41:14,079
surprised and and it's why as a

1162
00:41:17,270 --> 00:41:16,319
journalist i feel motivated to continue

1163
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:17,280
because

1164
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:19,040
there is a

1165
00:41:23,829 --> 00:41:21,920
a willingness to accept that yes this is

1166
00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:23,839
a legitimate subject for investigation

1167
00:41:27,829 --> 00:41:26,079
and yes uh friends the americans are

1168
00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:27,839
probably hiding something from us we

1169
00:41:31,190 --> 00:41:29,760
accept that roscoe but that's pretty

1170
00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:31,200
pretty much parcel and parcel of the

1171
00:41:36,230 --> 00:41:33,520
five eyes yes we're cleared into the

1172
00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:36,240
intelligence that goes through the um

1173
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:37,839
the sharing agreements under the five

1174
00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:39,599
eyes agreement but we're very very well

1175
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:41,280
aware that the americans are always

1176
00:41:45,990 --> 00:41:43,920
working on things in private aerospace

1177
00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:46,000
and new defense technologies that we're

1178
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:48,880
not always immediately read into and i

1179
00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:50,720
think a lot of them assume that the

1180
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:53,280
objects that they're seeing are black

1181
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:55,200
american technology

1182
00:42:00,309 --> 00:41:58,480
but they're definitely seeing things

1183
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:00,319
what makes you think that your computer

1184
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:02,800
is safe when you're using a vpn or on

1185
00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:05,040
the dark web if they can access your

1186
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:07,839
computer and perhaps screen capture

1187
00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:10,240
even take keyboard logs

1188
00:42:13,430 --> 00:42:11,839
one of the things i regularly do and

1189
00:42:16,710 --> 00:42:13,440
i've been doing this for a while and

1190
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:16,720
anybody can do this is

1191
00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:19,280
you can download some pretty good

1192
00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:22,000
virus trojan checking software from a

1193
00:42:26,069 --> 00:42:24,560
company called imazing

1194
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:26,079
who

1195
00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:28,319
in particular they've been able to

1196
00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:31,599
detect the is it nro pegasus software

1197
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:33,520
which is this really intrusive software

1198
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:34,880
that's been used

1199
00:42:39,190 --> 00:42:36,960
very aggressively against journalists

1200
00:42:41,670 --> 00:42:39,200
including sadly the guy who was

1201
00:42:43,349 --> 00:42:41,680
chainsawed to pieces by the saudis in

1202
00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:43,359
turkey

1203
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:45,520
you know there's been um

1204
00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:48,400
increasingly there's been misuse of

1205
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:50,560
intelligence related technologies

1206
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:52,720
particularly those built by the israelis

1207
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:55,920
who are pretty ruthless in this regard

1208
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:57,200
one of the things i've done a story

1209
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:59,040
about you can actually i think you can

1210
00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:00,720
find this on the web

1211
00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:03,200
when i was at 60 minutes australia uh i

1212
00:43:09,230 --> 00:43:05,680
did a story that actually cbs 60 minutes

1213
00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:09,240
picked up as well on the

1214
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:13,040
ss7 the signaling system 7

1215
00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:15,200
system that operates behind mobile phone

1216
00:43:18,870 --> 00:43:16,400
telephony

1217
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:18,880
which essentially leaves a back door in

1218
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:20,800
all mobile phones

1219
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:22,319
these mobile phones that are so

1220
00:43:26,950 --> 00:43:24,880
ubiquitous that we use around the world

1221
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:26,960
now without even thinking

1222
00:43:32,550 --> 00:43:30,319
they are wide open to tapping

1223
00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:32,560
wide open it's such a huge hole and it's

1224
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:34,480
never been fixed because to fix it you

1225
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:36,000
would actually need to change the whole

1226
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:38,160
architecture of mobile phone

1227
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:40,560
telephony and um i think it's really

1228
00:43:46,150 --> 00:43:43,440
important that people know this because

1229
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:46,160
i assume as a matter of course

1230
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:49,680
that all communications are compromised

1231
00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:50,720
um

1232
00:43:52,470 --> 00:43:51,599
uh

1233
00:43:59,030 --> 00:43:52,480
i

1234
00:44:01,670 --> 00:43:59,040
to a lot of people

1235
00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:01,680
would look insane

1236
00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:03,359
uh

1237
00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:05,200
to protect the security of some of my

1238
00:44:09,589 --> 00:44:07,200
more sensitive contacts

1239
00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:09,599
and that literally involves

1240
00:44:14,710 --> 00:44:13,839
both of us logging on with a vpn

1241
00:44:15,589 --> 00:44:14,720
and

1242
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:15,599
tour

1243
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:17,200
software

1244
00:44:21,510 --> 00:44:19,680
going into the dark web and accessing a

1245
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:21,520
place in the dark where we essentially

1246
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:23,520
leave messages for each other

1247
00:44:28,870 --> 00:44:26,640
that's about the only way a virtual dead

1248
00:44:30,309 --> 00:44:28,880
letter box that i can think of of coming

1249
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:30,319
anywhere near

1250
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:32,800
being able to uh protect the

1251
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:35,440
confidentiality of a secure source

1252
00:44:39,270 --> 00:44:37,040
and i'll go to those steps i'll go to

1253
00:44:41,109 --> 00:44:39,280
those measures and i've warned i've done

1254
00:44:43,349 --> 00:44:41,119
speeches where i've talked about how

1255
00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:43,359
wide open mobile phone telephony is and

1256
00:44:47,109 --> 00:44:45,040
i see

1257
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:47,119
i was shortly before the lockdown was

1258
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:49,200
instituted here in australia i had lunch

1259
00:44:52,150 --> 00:44:50,640
with a federal minister in our

1260
00:44:53,589 --> 00:44:52,160
government who's in a very sensitive

1261
00:44:55,430 --> 00:44:53,599
portfolio

1262
00:44:57,190 --> 00:44:55,440
and he he was taking phone calls from

1263
00:44:59,589 --> 00:44:57,200
his staff on his normal mobile and i

1264
00:45:01,750 --> 00:44:59,599
said don't you have an encrypted phone

1265
00:45:03,270 --> 00:45:01,760
and he went rf effing you know

1266
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:03,280
he says bloody things let just slow

1267
00:45:07,510 --> 00:45:05,119
things down and you can't hear you know

1268
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:07,520
and i said yep you realize how wide open

1269
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:09,200
these phones are and you went yeah yeah

1270
00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:10,960
that's what asd tells me all the time

1271
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:13,280
and asd is the australian signals

1272
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:15,920
director they're the people that

1273
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:17,520
they do the bugging with the national

1274
00:45:21,190 --> 00:45:19,520
security agency as part of the five eyes

1275
00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:21,200
but they are also responsible for

1276
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:22,640
communications

1277
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:25,119
infrastructure security in this country

1278
00:45:28,230 --> 00:45:26,560
and um

1279
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:28,240
you know i know that ministers are

1280
00:45:33,510 --> 00:45:30,480
warned all the time not to use mobile

1281
00:45:36,550 --> 00:45:33,520
phones but what they don't realize and i

1282
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:36,560
i emulated this in a program where i was

1283
00:45:41,190 --> 00:45:38,079
in london

1284
00:45:44,309 --> 00:45:41,200
and a bunch of hackers in germany all

1285
00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:44,319
i'd done was give them my mobile

1286
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:46,079
and i was in london and i said i'm going

1287
00:45:51,589 --> 00:45:48,000
to be having a phone call with a federal

1288
00:45:53,430 --> 00:45:51,599
politician in canberra in australia at 7

1289
00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:53,440
pm london time

1290
00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:55,200
can you hack me

1291
00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:57,680
and these german hackers from the chaos

1292
00:46:01,750 --> 00:45:59,119
computer club

1293
00:46:04,309 --> 00:46:01,760
working with a german company that

1294
00:46:07,829 --> 00:46:04,319
with legal authorization from the german

1295
00:46:09,589 --> 00:46:07,839
government we're using a ss7 portal

1296
00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:09,599
which is a portal that opens on the

1297
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:12,400
internet to give you access to mobile

1298
00:46:17,430 --> 00:46:15,680
phone telephony they were able to hack

1299
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:17,440
my phone call

1300
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:19,760
by only knowing my phone number

1301
00:46:23,109 --> 00:46:21,200
because once they had my phone number

1302
00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:23,119
they were able to get my ime code once

1303
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:24,880
they had my ime code they were then able

1304
00:46:29,190 --> 00:46:27,680
to patch into my phone call

1305
00:46:31,990 --> 00:46:29,200
using this

1306
00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:32,000
signaling system 7 backdoor messaging

1307
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:33,760
channel that's used for mobile phone

1308
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:35,040
telephony

1309
00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:37,119
and i really think this is important and

1310
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:38,800
i'm sorry if i'm sounding like a nerd

1311
00:46:42,790 --> 00:46:41,040
for a moment but if anybody wants to see

1312
00:46:45,190 --> 00:46:42,800
my story about this i'm pretty sure it's

1313
00:46:48,069 --> 00:46:45,200
on the web just google ross cool mobile

1314
00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:48,079
phone telephony 60 minutes australia

1315
00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:50,480
it is an absolute outrage that the

1316
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:52,160
communications companies haven't patched

1317
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:54,160
up these holes and i always laugh when

1318
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:56,640
you read apple giving assurances that

1319
00:46:59,670 --> 00:46:58,319
their phones have been made so more

1320
00:47:01,589 --> 00:46:59,680
secure or

1321
00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:01,599
where you read people from different

1322
00:47:05,109 --> 00:47:03,440
encryption companies talking about how

1323
00:47:07,510 --> 00:47:05,119
safe their phones are because they've

1324
00:47:09,390 --> 00:47:07,520
got encryption and you know

1325
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:09,400
various levels of

1326
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:12,000
245-bit encryption or whatever

1327
00:47:16,069 --> 00:47:14,160
the reality is that if you have the back

1328
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:16,079
door that exists in mobile phone

1329
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:18,880
telephony mobile phones are

1330
00:47:24,950 --> 00:47:21,520
wide open all governments know this and

1331
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:24,960
all spy organizations know this and a

1332
00:47:30,069 --> 00:47:28,160
lot of private corporations that sell

1333
00:47:31,829 --> 00:47:30,079
data know this

1334
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:31,839
and one of the things i did as part of

1335
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:33,920
my research was i i

1336
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:34,960
approached

1337
00:47:40,390 --> 00:47:38,000
companies in the us that freely sell

1338
00:47:43,109 --> 00:47:40,400
this technology they offer it for a lot

1339
00:47:45,349 --> 00:47:43,119
of money to anybody prepared to pay

1340
00:47:46,549 --> 00:47:45,359
and you can literally listen in i could

1341
00:47:48,790 --> 00:47:46,559
if i wanted to listen to all of your

1342
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:48,800
phone calls kurt and i had the money i

1343
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:50,480
could do it tomorrow

1344
00:47:53,510 --> 00:47:52,240
and it doesn't matter what you put on

1345
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:53,520
your phone

1346
00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:55,280
and so people have got to stop thinking

1347
00:47:59,030 --> 00:47:57,440
that communications are in any way safe

1348
00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:59,040
and i say this to journalists all the

1349
00:48:02,549 --> 00:48:01,440
time i occasionally teach at journalism

1350
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:02,559
schools and

1351
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:05,040
i say to students you know you guys

1352
00:48:09,030 --> 00:48:07,119
really need to understand the importance

1353
00:48:10,230 --> 00:48:09,040
of protecting sources

1354
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:10,240
and there's always a kind of a

1355
00:48:13,910 --> 00:48:11,680
nervousness about it because for

1356
00:48:15,670 --> 00:48:13,920
millennials this is how they communicate

1357
00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:15,680
this is how they engage this is how they

1358
00:48:20,549 --> 00:48:17,280
engage with culture

1359
00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:20,559
and what we don't realize is

1360
00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:23,200
how much we've given away as a result of

1361
00:48:28,309 --> 00:48:26,000
having this easy communication access

1362
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:28,319
and what it's doing to investigative

1363
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:30,640
journalism because

1364
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:32,800
i assume as a matter of course that if

1365
00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:35,040
i'm communicating on a mobile phone

1366
00:48:39,030 --> 00:48:37,520
any communication is being monitored and

1367
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:39,040
listened to

1368
00:48:42,870 --> 00:48:41,119
does that apply to if you're browsing or

1369
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:42,880
if you're going on youtube or messaging

1370
00:48:48,069 --> 00:48:44,960
over a certain app

1371
00:48:50,950 --> 00:48:48,079
or is it only when you call someone

1372
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:50,960
uh it's if you're using your mobile

1373
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:52,640
phone either on the web or as a

1374
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:54,880
communication tool they can they can

1375
00:48:58,710 --> 00:48:56,800
track you

1376
00:49:01,270 --> 00:48:58,720
there's no problem it's very very easy

1377
00:49:03,190 --> 00:49:01,280
to get hold of anything any data any

1378
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:03,200
voice message any data any anything

1379
00:49:07,430 --> 00:49:04,800
that's going over your phone if you're

1380
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:07,440
using your phone

1381
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:09,760
when it comes to say using your pc or

1382
00:49:14,549 --> 00:49:12,240
your apple laptop to

1383
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:14,559
browse the internet i mean sure you

1384
00:49:21,109 --> 00:49:18,400
should use a vpn and i use tor a lot for

1385
00:49:23,109 --> 00:49:21,119
confidential communications with sources

1386
00:49:24,549 --> 00:49:23,119
and for searches where i don't want

1387
00:49:26,109 --> 00:49:24,559
people to know what i'm searching

1388
00:49:28,630 --> 00:49:26,119
there's a great search engine called

1389
00:49:29,430 --> 00:49:28,640
duckduckgo which is an anonymized search

1390
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:29,440
engine

1391
00:49:33,750 --> 00:49:31,200
but even then you should be using that

1392
00:49:35,910 --> 00:49:33,760
in conjunction with tor

1393
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:35,920
and you should be updating the latest

1394
00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:37,050
versions of tor

1395
00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:39,599
[Laughter]

1396
00:49:44,309 --> 00:49:41,680
i'm i'm also

1397
00:49:45,910 --> 00:49:44,319
i used for years i think called pgp

1398
00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:45,920
pretty good privacy which was an

1399
00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:47,760
encrypted

1400
00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:50,160
uh system and if people look they'll

1401
00:49:53,589 --> 00:49:52,160
find there are very similar systems like

1402
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:53,599
that there are that are commercially

1403
00:49:58,069 --> 00:49:55,680
available and

1404
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:58,079
again because of crypto ag which i told

1405
00:50:01,829 --> 00:50:00,079
you about earlier i assume that all of

1406
00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:01,839
these have got backdoors in them and the

1407
00:50:07,030 --> 00:50:04,160
determined state

1408
00:50:08,390 --> 00:50:07,040
aggressor can access any communications

1409
00:50:10,230 --> 00:50:08,400
it wants to

1410
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:10,240
i mean there are trojans that can be

1411
00:50:16,150 --> 00:50:13,440
inserted on any mobile phone

1412
00:50:17,990 --> 00:50:16,160
simply by you receiving that trojan you

1413
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:18,000
don't even have to click on it

1414
00:50:20,390 --> 00:50:18,960
so

1415
00:50:21,829 --> 00:50:20,400
frankly

1416
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:21,839
you know if somebody wants to hack you

1417
00:50:24,470 --> 00:50:23,440
they can hack you

1418
00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:24,480
but

1419
00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:26,640
am i really that important

1420
00:50:29,829 --> 00:50:28,000
by the way someone said that you may be

1421
00:50:32,790 --> 00:50:29,839
one of the most important people in the

1422
00:50:34,710 --> 00:50:32,800
world because of breaking this ufo case

1423
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:34,720
oh thanks very much

1424
00:50:38,870 --> 00:50:36,960
this comes from the journalist david

1425
00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:38,880
bates who can be

1426
00:50:43,030 --> 00:50:41,680
followed at david b writer he wants to

1427
00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:43,040
know

1428
00:50:45,990 --> 00:50:44,480
given that you've published in a variety

1429
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:46,000
of outlets

1430
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:48,480
is there a particular do you work

1431
00:50:52,470 --> 00:50:51,119
on ufo stories for a particular outlet

1432
00:50:53,910 --> 00:50:52,480
that you know will back him up that's

1433
00:50:56,710 --> 00:50:53,920
sorry that he that you know will back

1434
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:56,720
you up or do you have to pitch it to an

1435
00:51:01,190 --> 00:50:58,720
editor i guess what i'd really like to

1436
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:01,200
know is is it possible that ross's work

1437
00:51:06,870 --> 00:51:03,119
may appear in the new york times and may

1438
00:51:09,030 --> 00:51:06,880
even collaborate with leslie keane

1439
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:09,040
i work as a freelance journalist until a

1440
00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:10,720
few years ago i was working as an

1441
00:51:14,309 --> 00:51:12,559
investigative reporter for australia's

1442
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:14,319
60 minutes program

1443
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:16,079
but i have to be honest their commitment

1444
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:18,000
to investigative journal journalism

1445
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:19,680
diminished and

1446
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:20,800
we just

1447
00:51:24,549 --> 00:51:22,319
they just weren't interested in what i

1448
00:51:26,470 --> 00:51:24,559
like doing anymore and quite frankly a

1449
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:26,480
lot of media organizations aren't and

1450
00:51:30,950 --> 00:51:28,800
the only solution to that is to become a

1451
00:51:32,790 --> 00:51:30,960
freelancer and do it yourself

1452
00:51:35,190 --> 00:51:32,800
and i've been really happily surprised

1453
00:51:37,270 --> 00:51:35,200
because there are other organizations

1454
00:51:39,190 --> 00:51:37,280
that do want my content and i've

1455
00:51:42,549 --> 00:51:39,200
freelanced i've sold articles all around

1456
00:51:44,549 --> 00:51:42,559
the world i've made tv documentaries um

1457
00:51:46,470 --> 00:51:44,559
both here in australia and overseas i'm

1458
00:51:48,390 --> 00:51:46,480
an independent producer

1459
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:48,400
i'm pitching documentary series and

1460
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:51,520
dramatization series at the moment

1461
00:51:56,390 --> 00:51:53,920
and yes i have written in the past for

1462
00:51:58,309 --> 00:51:56,400
the new york times i've written for a

1463
00:52:00,470 --> 00:51:58,319
lot of the world's top newspapers over

1464
00:52:02,870 --> 00:52:00,480
the years

1465
00:52:05,430 --> 00:52:02,880
and i make documentaries and as people

1466
00:52:08,470 --> 00:52:05,440
would know if you go to the channel 7

1467
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:08,480
australia spotlight program if you just

1468
00:52:13,990 --> 00:52:11,680
go into youtube and put in 7 channel 7

1469
00:52:16,470 --> 00:52:14,000
spotlight ufo

1470
00:52:18,790 --> 00:52:16,480
you'll be able to access for free the on

1471
00:52:21,270 --> 00:52:18,800
youtube the program that i made called

1472
00:52:22,950 --> 00:52:21,280
the ufo phenomenon

1473
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:22,960
and i think in its current iteration

1474
00:52:28,230 --> 00:52:25,280
it's got about two and a half million to

1475
00:52:29,910 --> 00:52:28,240
three million views alone and that's the

1476
00:52:31,589 --> 00:52:29,920
second or third time we've put it up on

1477
00:52:33,430 --> 00:52:31,599
youtube so

1478
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:33,440
i think we're now five or six million

1479
00:52:38,630 --> 00:52:36,240
views which is just mind-boggling and so

1480
00:52:39,910 --> 00:52:38,640
yeah i i'm finding that

1481
00:52:42,069 --> 00:52:39,920
it's quite funny

1482
00:52:44,069 --> 00:52:42,079
in the past i've had media organizations

1483
00:52:45,990 --> 00:52:44,079
that are quite reluctant to engage with

1484
00:52:47,430 --> 00:52:46,000
the subject of ufos because they're

1485
00:52:50,309 --> 00:52:47,440
worried about

1486
00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:50,319
stigma or ridicule

1487
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:53,440
but the lesson from the ufo phenomenon

1488
00:52:59,430 --> 00:52:56,480
which i published in late

1489
00:53:02,309 --> 00:52:59,440
late may i think it was god time blight

1490
00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:02,319
but the the lesson from that film is

1491
00:53:08,230 --> 00:53:05,040
the audience know what the audience

1492
00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:08,240
wants i i've heard i have just been

1493
00:53:11,990 --> 00:53:10,000
overwhelmed

1494
00:53:13,670 --> 00:53:12,000
in the last few months i'm physically

1495
00:53:16,710 --> 00:53:13,680
and mentally exhausted at the moment

1496
00:53:17,670 --> 00:53:16,720
from the scale of response that i've had

1497
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:17,680
to

1498
00:53:24,790 --> 00:53:23,040
and it's very gratifying i mean the one

1499
00:53:26,069 --> 00:53:24,800
thing a journalist loves more than

1500
00:53:28,309 --> 00:53:26,079
anything else is knowing that his

1501
00:53:30,390 --> 00:53:28,319
audience are actually engaging with and

1502
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:30,400
taking an interest in

1503
00:53:33,349 --> 00:53:32,480
the journalism that you make

1504
00:53:35,109 --> 00:53:33,359
and

1505
00:53:37,990 --> 00:53:35,119
that's certainly the case with with

1506
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:38,000
subject matter like uaps ufos

1507
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:41,280
and i find it very gratifying but also

1508
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:42,960
the media organization that i have the

1509
00:53:46,390 --> 00:53:44,720
closest relationship at the moment which

1510
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:46,400
is a huge commercial network called

1511
00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:48,720
channel 7 australia i work for them as a

1512
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:51,200
contributor as a contributing freelancer

1513
00:53:57,990 --> 00:53:53,760
they are desperate for me to do more ufo

1514
00:54:00,630 --> 00:53:59,109
you know they've discovered that the

1515
00:54:02,790 --> 00:54:00,640
public are really interested in this

1516
00:54:05,109 --> 00:54:02,800
subject matter and and i was saying to

1517
00:54:07,670 --> 00:54:05,119
them i can remember uh i went for lunch

1518
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:07,680
with a couple of the guys behind the

1519
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:09,680
program late last year and i said oh

1520
00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:11,920
look i've got this um

1521
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:13,440
i've got this documentary that i want to

1522
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:15,680
do about ufos

1523
00:54:19,750 --> 00:54:17,760
and i sort of waited for them to giggle

1524
00:54:21,990 --> 00:54:19,760
nervously and um

1525
00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:22,000
instead they went absolutely we really

1526
00:54:28,710 --> 00:54:26,950
because they're getting the same level

1527
00:54:30,630 --> 00:54:28,720
of response you know they've never had a

1528
00:54:32,790 --> 00:54:30,640
response like this to a story before i

1529
00:54:35,270 --> 00:54:32,800
mean a tv network in australia does not

1530
00:54:36,710 --> 00:54:35,280
get five or six million views on youtube

1531
00:54:38,789 --> 00:54:36,720
for a story

1532
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:38,799
and the reason why

1533
00:54:43,990 --> 00:54:41,520
they're getting this response is because

1534
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:44,000
i you know i'm i'm fulfilling a need

1535
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:45,359
people are interested in the subject

1536
00:54:50,549 --> 00:54:48,160
matter and i hope i i pray that i'm

1537
00:54:51,510 --> 00:54:50,559
engaging with it in an objective and

1538
00:54:53,510 --> 00:54:51,520
fair

1539
00:54:55,190 --> 00:54:53,520
and impartial way and using the skill

1540
00:54:57,270 --> 00:54:55,200
set that i would normally use as an

1541
00:54:58,309 --> 00:54:57,280
investigative journalist to analyze

1542
00:54:59,430 --> 00:54:58,319
anything

1543
00:55:02,150 --> 00:54:59,440
and i think that's what people are

1544
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:02,160
responding to that um

1545
00:55:06,789 --> 00:55:04,640
no disrespect to any of my peers one of

1546
00:55:08,710 --> 00:55:06,799
the problems i have with ufology is i

1547
00:55:11,349 --> 00:55:08,720
think there's far too much of glib

1548
00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:11,359
acceptance of assertions you know we

1549
00:55:14,549 --> 00:55:13,040
people want it even though they they

1550
00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:14,559
want to believe

1551
00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:16,400
i'm not into belief when people ask me

1552
00:55:21,589 --> 00:55:19,359
do i believe in ufos i say look i just

1553
00:55:23,349 --> 00:55:21,599
don't know i really don't know

1554
00:55:25,270 --> 00:55:23,359
what i do know

1555
00:55:26,230 --> 00:55:25,280
are certain things

1556
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:26,240
there is

1557
00:55:33,430 --> 00:55:31,680
clearly engaging with humanity

1558
00:55:36,309 --> 00:55:33,440
i don't care what the debunkers or the

1559
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:36,319
skeptics say when i had my meetings with

1560
00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:37,680
different people from different

1561
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:41,280
three-letter agencies in the u.s

1562
00:55:43,990 --> 00:55:42,720
and conversations with people in your

1563
00:55:45,910 --> 00:55:44,000
country

1564
00:55:49,109 --> 00:55:45,920
australia new zealand and britain and

1565
00:55:51,430 --> 00:55:49,119
france it became immediately clear to me

1566
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:51,440
that the military and intelligence

1567
00:55:55,829 --> 00:55:53,920
services of all of our countries are

1568
00:55:58,150 --> 00:55:55,839
very aware of the reality of the

1569
00:56:00,309 --> 00:55:58,160
phenomenon and they are not able to

1570
00:56:01,589 --> 00:56:00,319
offer prosaic explanations for that

1571
00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:01,599
phenomenon

1572
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:04,079
and to use lou's observables they are

1573
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:06,640
they're doing hypersonic maneuvers tens

1574
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:08,880
of thousands of kilometers an hour

1575
00:56:14,710 --> 00:56:11,760
they're real solid objects lou uses the

1576
00:56:16,309 --> 00:56:14,720
term i noticed craft vehicle more often

1577
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:16,319
he started out saying objects but

1578
00:56:21,030 --> 00:56:18,240
increasingly have you noticed he's he

1579
00:56:22,870 --> 00:56:21,040
started using the word craft or vehicle

1580
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:22,880
they are clearly intelligently

1581
00:56:26,789 --> 00:56:24,640
controlled they're responding in an

1582
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:26,799
intelligent way

1583
00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:28,400
and so if you go through all of those

1584
00:56:32,390 --> 00:56:30,480
observables and when i've run them i've

1585
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:32,400
you know i've run them past they're very

1586
00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:34,240
useful because i've run them past

1587
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:35,599
different officials in different

1588
00:56:39,589 --> 00:56:37,760
countries and they all agree you know

1589
00:56:42,309 --> 00:56:39,599
they can't explain this

1590
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:42,319
and so that's what i come back to

1591
00:56:46,789 --> 00:56:44,720
what i do know you know and if people

1592
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:46,799
ask me what i believe i go it's not

1593
00:56:49,349 --> 00:56:48,000
relevant

1594
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:49,359
what i know

1595
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:50,400
is

1596
00:56:54,870 --> 00:56:52,400
what can be verified

1597
00:56:56,789 --> 00:56:54,880
and and we are now at a situation which

1598
00:56:58,789 --> 00:56:56,799
i find quite astonishing

1599
00:56:59,910 --> 00:56:58,799
where the most powerful country on the

1600
00:57:03,109 --> 00:56:59,920
planet

1601
00:57:05,750 --> 00:57:03,119
america has formally admitted the

1602
00:57:09,270 --> 00:57:05,760
phenomenon is real

1603
00:57:10,630 --> 00:57:09,280
that's huge that's a major step forward

1604
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:10,640
but are they going to be more

1605
00:57:16,549 --> 00:57:14,559
forthcoming i somehow doubt it

1606
00:57:19,510 --> 00:57:16,559
are you able to keep up with responding

1607
00:57:22,710 --> 00:57:19,520
to people who email you compliments like

1608
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:22,720
you perhaps get 100 a day or 200 even

1609
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:26,160
i had i had 167 new emails this morning

1610
00:57:30,069 --> 00:57:28,319
and uh i was going through them before i

1611
00:57:32,549 --> 00:57:30,079
logged in to talk to you

1612
00:57:34,710 --> 00:57:32,559
there's no way i can get on top of them

1613
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:34,720
at the speed that people want i've i've

1614
00:57:38,710 --> 00:57:36,559
had a few people i've had a few people

1615
00:57:40,309 --> 00:57:38,720
angrily demanding to know why i haven't

1616
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:40,319
responded back to them yet and they've

1617
00:57:45,589 --> 00:57:43,359
sent me like a hundred pages of data and

1618
00:57:48,069 --> 00:57:45,599
i i go look you know i'll get to it when

1619
00:57:50,710 --> 00:57:48,079
i've got my time you know i'm not funded

1620
00:57:53,349 --> 00:57:50,720
by a major media organization to do this

1621
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:53,359
investigative research i just do it

1622
00:57:55,910 --> 00:57:54,480
and

1623
00:57:57,510 --> 00:57:55,920
even if you were funded you only have a

1624
00:57:59,270 --> 00:57:57,520
certain amount of time the time is the

1625
00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:59,280
main issue

1626
00:58:03,030 --> 00:58:00,720
well this is the big thing i mean this

1627
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:03,040
is the compromise that you often make in

1628
00:58:06,710 --> 00:58:05,040
commercial and indeed in public

1629
00:58:08,549 --> 00:58:06,720
broadcasting television with

1630
00:58:10,390 --> 00:58:08,559
investigative journalism because sooner

1631
00:58:11,990 --> 00:58:10,400
or later if you've spent two or three

1632
00:58:14,069 --> 00:58:12,000
weeks on a story

1633
00:58:16,390 --> 00:58:14,079
the boss comes up to you and he goes hey

1634
00:58:19,030 --> 00:58:16,400
roscoe mate

1635
00:58:20,630 --> 00:58:19,040
uh time's getting on you know yeah it's

1636
00:58:23,109 --> 00:58:20,640
the story when's the story coming up

1637
00:58:25,030 --> 00:58:23,119
we've got a holder filled and so for me

1638
00:58:27,349 --> 00:58:25,040
the enormous freedom that i have at the

1639
00:58:28,789 --> 00:58:27,359
moment i've i've moved to the country

1640
00:58:31,030 --> 00:58:28,799
i've um

1641
00:58:33,030 --> 00:58:31,040
i've got the ability as a freelancer to

1642
00:58:36,630 --> 00:58:33,040
take my time to do things i'm a bit

1643
00:58:39,750 --> 00:58:36,640
older than most i'm 59 soon to turn 60

1644
00:58:41,109 --> 00:58:39,760
and uh i you know i've i've

1645
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:41,119
i've had a lot of the fun in my

1646
00:58:44,549 --> 00:58:43,200
journalistic career

1647
00:58:46,950 --> 00:58:44,559
before now

1648
00:58:49,109 --> 00:58:46,960
but i i've devoted

1649
00:58:50,950 --> 00:58:49,119
a chunk of my time to investigating the

1650
00:58:52,870 --> 00:58:50,960
phenomenon because

1651
00:58:54,470 --> 00:58:52,880
one thing as a journalist that you

1652
00:58:57,430 --> 00:58:54,480
develop

1653
00:59:00,150 --> 00:58:57,440
is a nose for a good story

1654
00:59:01,430 --> 00:59:00,160
believe me this is a good story it's a

1655
00:59:02,230 --> 00:59:01,440
great yarn

1656
00:59:04,390 --> 00:59:02,240
and

1657
00:59:05,750 --> 00:59:04,400
i'm kind of hoping frankly that my

1658
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:05,760
friends in

1659
00:59:10,549 --> 00:59:08,640
other media organizations don't jump on

1660
00:59:12,230 --> 00:59:10,559
the bandwagon because

1661
00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:12,240
once the

1662
00:59:16,549 --> 00:59:15,280
cbs's abc's and nbc's of this world

1663
00:59:18,630 --> 00:59:16,559
actually start deploying their

1664
00:59:20,950 --> 00:59:18,640
investigative teams and spending serious

1665
00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:20,960
coin not investigating the phenomenon

1666
00:59:23,829 --> 00:59:22,960
i'm going to be left for dust you know i

1667
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:23,839
mean

1668
00:59:27,589 --> 00:59:26,160
really we are i think you know as a

1669
00:59:29,670 --> 00:59:27,599
media person i can tell you i think

1670
00:59:32,069 --> 00:59:29,680
we're on the cusp of

1671
00:59:34,710 --> 00:59:32,079
an adjustment in the media you've still

1672
00:59:36,230 --> 00:59:34,720
got those outliers who go oh it's all

1673
00:59:38,549 --> 00:59:36,240
you know it's all rubbish you

1674
00:59:39,750 --> 00:59:38,559
know ridicule ridicule stigma stigma

1675
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:39,760
taboo

1676
00:59:43,589 --> 00:59:41,359
and you know and i've had a few of them

1677
00:59:46,150 --> 00:59:43,599
ring me because i'm i'm part of a group

1678
00:59:47,510 --> 00:59:46,160
called icij the

1679
00:59:49,109 --> 00:59:47,520
international consortium of

1680
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:49,119
investigative journalists based out of

1681
00:59:53,829 --> 00:59:51,680
washington dc and a lot of us talk to

1682
00:59:55,670 --> 00:59:53,839
each other on the web and share ideas

1683
00:59:57,109 --> 00:59:55,680
and stories and a few of them have

1684
01:00:00,549 --> 00:59:57,119
become aware that i've written a book on

1685
01:00:02,950 --> 01:00:00,559
ufos and i was in a spanish newspaper uh

1686
01:00:04,470 --> 01:00:02,960
a few days ago and um

1687
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:04,480
one of my spanish journalist friends

1688
01:00:08,230 --> 01:00:05,680
rang me and

1689
01:00:09,750 --> 01:00:08,240
he went oh russ you're doing a book on

1690
01:00:12,309 --> 01:00:09,760
ufos and i went yeah it's already

1691
01:00:13,990 --> 01:00:12,319
published and he went oh really and then

1692
01:00:15,589 --> 01:00:14,000
he rang me back about two days later and

1693
01:00:17,829 --> 01:00:15,599
he read my book and he watched my

1694
01:00:19,910 --> 01:00:17,839
documentary and i waited for him to read

1695
01:00:21,670 --> 01:00:19,920
it i waited for him to ridicule me and

1696
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:21,680
uh because normally that's what happens

1697
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:23,200
normally somebody takes the piss and

1698
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:24,960
says oh mate you've gone crazy you know

1699
01:00:27,349 --> 01:00:26,400
you've got tin foil hat on your head you

1700
01:00:28,950 --> 01:00:27,359
know

1701
01:00:30,870 --> 01:00:28,960
and the hilarious thing was he started

1702
01:00:33,349 --> 01:00:30,880
talking to me about ufo sightings he was

1703
01:00:34,870 --> 01:00:33,359
aware of as a very senior spanish

1704
01:00:36,630 --> 01:00:34,880
journalist that he'd never reported

1705
01:00:37,990 --> 01:00:36,640
about you know and he'd had sources from

1706
01:00:39,589 --> 01:00:38,000
the government and the defense and

1707
01:00:41,270 --> 01:00:39,599
intelligence services in his country

1708
01:00:43,430 --> 01:00:41,280
talked to him about it

1709
01:00:46,870 --> 01:00:43,440
and i said to him i said why why did he

1710
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:46,880
never publish the stories and he went

1711
01:00:51,910 --> 01:00:48,880
look to be honest ross it's you know

1712
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:51,920
there is so much taboo you know people

1713
01:00:56,069 --> 01:00:53,920
do not go near the subject because it is

1714
01:00:57,589 --> 01:00:56,079
people laugh at you and i would

1715
01:00:59,190 --> 01:00:57,599
well not a lot of people are laughing at

1716
01:01:00,950 --> 01:00:59,200
me i said the only people that are

1717
01:01:03,670 --> 01:01:00,960
laughing at me are sort of desperate

1718
01:01:05,750 --> 01:01:03,680
outliers who frankly i don't care too

1719
01:01:07,109 --> 01:01:05,760
much about and i said frankly mate i

1720
01:01:08,549 --> 01:01:07,119
don't want to encourage you to go into

1721
01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:08,559
the subject matter because it's such a

1722
01:01:12,549 --> 01:01:10,480
good story for me right now you know

1723
01:01:14,789 --> 01:01:12,559
it's fertile pasture

1724
01:01:16,710 --> 01:01:14,799
and he he promised to go away and renew

1725
01:01:18,309 --> 01:01:16,720
his contacts with his sources and go

1726
01:01:19,510 --> 01:01:18,319
back and start looking at the subject

1727
01:01:21,670 --> 01:01:19,520
matter and i think that's going to

1728
01:01:23,910 --> 01:01:21,680
happen i think there's a cultural change

1729
01:01:25,589 --> 01:01:23,920
happening here and the media normally

1730
01:01:28,069 --> 01:01:25,599
take about a year or two to catch up

1731
01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:28,079
with what's really happening and i think

1732
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:29,680
what we're going to see eventually is an

1733
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:32,240
adjustment the media will start engaging

1734
01:01:36,150 --> 01:01:33,119
with

1735
01:01:39,109 --> 01:01:36,160
uaps as a legitimate subject matter for

1736
01:01:41,349 --> 01:01:39,119
investigation

1737
01:01:43,190 --> 01:01:41,359
man there's so much like i got to get to

1738
01:01:45,829 --> 01:01:43,200
some audience questions but i want to

1739
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:45,839
riff on that even for me with this show

1740
01:01:49,670 --> 01:01:48,000
with this podcast some of the most

1741
01:01:52,150 --> 01:01:49,680
successful episodes are the ones where i

1742
01:01:52,950 --> 01:01:52,160
investigate this uap phenomenon and i do

1743
01:01:55,109 --> 01:01:52,960
it

1744
01:01:57,190 --> 01:01:55,119
like a fledgling i barely know much

1745
01:01:58,789 --> 01:01:57,200
about the subject at all and i also see

1746
01:02:01,430 --> 01:01:58,799
that there's this twin phenomenon of

1747
01:02:03,349 --> 01:02:01,440
extreme disparagement mainly on the

1748
01:02:04,870 --> 01:02:03,359
but on the part of a

1749
01:02:06,870 --> 01:02:04,880
it's not necessarily public let's say

1750
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:06,880
media and then there's

1751
01:02:10,230 --> 01:02:08,880
extreme acceptance in some of the ufo

1752
01:02:12,230 --> 01:02:10,240
community

1753
01:02:14,150 --> 01:02:12,240
and

1754
01:02:17,109 --> 01:02:14,160
perhaps because i'm neither

1755
01:02:19,109 --> 01:02:17,119
there's there's some interest okay i i

1756
01:02:21,349 --> 01:02:19,119
can tell you there is a wisdom of the

1757
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:21,359
crowd do you know that term a wisdom of

1758
01:02:24,309 --> 01:02:23,520
the crowd with the phenomenon

1759
01:02:27,109 --> 01:02:24,319
uh

1760
01:02:28,789 --> 01:02:27,119
i am struck by an effect i mean i've i'm

1761
01:02:29,990 --> 01:02:28,799
doing some renovations from my house at

1762
01:02:31,589 --> 01:02:30,000
the moment and

1763
01:02:34,150 --> 01:02:31,599
a couple of workmen have come by in

1764
01:02:35,829 --> 01:02:34,160
recent weeks and now i'm reasonably well

1765
01:02:37,990 --> 01:02:35,839
known in this country and they've seen

1766
01:02:39,910 --> 01:02:38,000
my documentary and it's interesting

1767
01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:39,920
because

1768
01:02:43,589 --> 01:02:41,680
they've all got ufo stories and they all

1769
01:02:45,190 --> 01:02:43,599
want to talk about it and

1770
01:02:47,430 --> 01:02:45,200
it's just one of those things that i

1771
01:02:49,349 --> 01:02:47,440
think our society has

1772
01:02:51,510 --> 01:02:49,359
for no good reason

1773
01:02:54,390 --> 01:02:51,520
suppressed as a legitimate issue for

1774
01:02:57,029 --> 01:02:54,400
serious discussion and investigation

1775
01:02:58,390 --> 01:02:57,039
and uh what i'm struck by i mean we're

1776
01:02:59,750 --> 01:02:58,400
not allowed to go to dinner parties at

1777
01:03:01,670 --> 01:02:59,760
the moment in australia because we're

1778
01:03:04,309 --> 01:03:01,680
basically operating under authoritarian

1779
01:03:06,910 --> 01:03:04,319
lockdown rule it's outrageous i can't

1780
01:03:09,029 --> 01:03:06,920
believe how meek supposedly

1781
01:03:10,470 --> 01:03:09,039
anti-authoritarian australians are being

1782
01:03:12,069 --> 01:03:10,480
because we've basically all been locked

1783
01:03:12,950 --> 01:03:12,079
up in our homes for the last few months

1784
01:03:14,870 --> 01:03:12,960
but

1785
01:03:17,270 --> 01:03:14,880
in the period before that when i went to

1786
01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:17,280
dinner parties or social events and told

1787
01:03:20,150 --> 01:03:18,799
people i was working on a book about

1788
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:20,160
ufos

1789
01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:22,400
people were really interested

1790
01:03:26,390 --> 01:03:24,799
and there's an instant click where

1791
01:03:28,309 --> 01:03:26,400
people go yes

1792
01:03:31,349 --> 01:03:28,319
yes this is i really want to hear more

1793
01:03:33,029 --> 01:03:31,359
about this and um you know my wife god

1794
01:03:34,870 --> 01:03:33,039
bless her she got quite annoyed because

1795
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:34,880
we'd go to parties and i would just be

1796
01:03:38,549 --> 01:03:36,400
cornered by people and all they wanted

1797
01:03:42,870 --> 01:03:38,559
to do was talk about ufos

1798
01:03:47,510 --> 01:03:45,670
i uh i went to a conference in canberra

1799
01:03:49,270 --> 01:03:47,520
which is our capital city in australia

1800
01:03:50,950 --> 01:03:49,280
uh and it was a conference that was

1801
01:03:52,789 --> 01:03:50,960
attended by a number of defense and

1802
01:03:55,270 --> 01:03:52,799
intelligence officials and

1803
01:03:58,390 --> 01:03:55,280
i was just in a corner talking to an

1804
01:03:59,670 --> 01:03:58,400
admiral in our navy and um

1805
01:04:01,349 --> 01:03:59,680
uh

1806
01:04:03,750 --> 01:04:01,359
this other bloke walked up i won't say

1807
01:04:05,270 --> 01:04:03,760
who he was but he was from a certain

1808
01:04:06,789 --> 01:04:05,280
agency and

1809
01:04:08,950 --> 01:04:06,799
and he said oh

1810
01:04:11,990 --> 01:04:08,960
oh are you talking to ross about ufos

1811
01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:12,000
and uh and i went no no no talking we're

1812
01:04:16,309 --> 01:04:14,640
talking about the submarines and um

1813
01:04:18,069 --> 01:04:16,319
and uh it was very funny because then

1814
01:04:19,750 --> 01:04:18,079
the guy i was talking to you went oh

1815
01:04:21,109 --> 01:04:19,760
forget submarines what are you talking

1816
01:04:23,029 --> 01:04:21,119
about ufos are you writing a book on

1817
01:04:26,230 --> 01:04:23,039
ufos and then immediately uh you know

1818
01:04:28,549 --> 01:04:26,240
this guy starts talking to me about um

1819
01:04:30,309 --> 01:04:28,559
he was a submariner and uh he was

1820
01:04:32,470 --> 01:04:30,319
talking to me about how

1821
01:04:35,589 --> 01:04:32,480
australian submarines regularly

1822
01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:35,599
encountered what he called usos uh

1823
01:04:39,589 --> 01:04:37,920
underwater submerged objects

1824
01:04:41,190 --> 01:04:39,599
and so this whole conversation took off

1825
01:04:43,109 --> 01:04:41,200
where i found myself in a corner in a

1826
01:04:44,470 --> 01:04:43,119
conference with these uniformed

1827
01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:44,480
officials who were all like little

1828
01:04:48,549 --> 01:04:46,240
school boys guests backing away to me

1829
01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:48,559
about um the phenomenon that they'd

1830
01:04:52,710 --> 01:04:50,240
witnessed during their

1831
01:04:54,789 --> 01:04:52,720
younger careers and how puzzled and

1832
01:04:56,950 --> 01:04:54,799
mystified they were by it

1833
01:04:58,870 --> 01:04:56,960
and uh i ventured to suggest i remember

1834
01:05:00,630 --> 01:04:58,880
one of them i said look do you think the

1835
01:05:02,710 --> 01:05:00,640
americans know a lot more than the

1836
01:05:04,630 --> 01:05:02,720
they're letting on and he just tipped

1837
01:05:05,430 --> 01:05:04,640
his head back and went oh of course they

1838
01:05:09,589 --> 01:05:05,440
do

1839
01:05:11,349 --> 01:05:09,599
and um you know and as events

1840
01:05:13,190 --> 01:05:11,359
subsequently showed when i went to the

1841
01:05:15,190 --> 01:05:13,200
united states and sat down with people

1842
01:05:17,430 --> 01:05:15,200
in washington and um

1843
01:05:20,150 --> 01:05:17,440
parts of california uh that proved to be

1844
01:05:24,069 --> 01:05:22,230
all right william e has a question

1845
01:05:26,230 --> 01:05:24,079
what's your take on corso's book the day

1846
01:05:27,109 --> 01:05:26,240
after roswell

1847
01:05:29,190 --> 01:05:27,119
look i

1848
01:05:31,829 --> 01:05:29,200
i don't know i mean i think there's a

1849
01:05:32,789 --> 01:05:31,839
lot about the corso book that that makes

1850
01:05:35,270 --> 01:05:32,799
sense

1851
01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:35,280
i do think roswell was a cover-up i find

1852
01:05:39,190 --> 01:05:36,880
it quite laughable it's actually quite

1853
01:05:41,109 --> 01:05:39,200
hilarious seeing the double black flip

1854
01:05:43,150 --> 01:05:41,119
with pikes that the us air force has

1855
01:05:45,990 --> 01:05:43,160
committed in order to try and

1856
01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:46,000
perpetrate the lie and continue the lie

1857
01:05:49,430 --> 01:05:47,440
that it's been telling

1858
01:05:51,270 --> 01:05:49,440
i just honked with laughter because

1859
01:05:53,829 --> 01:05:51,280
there's a great article i quoted chunks

1860
01:05:55,670 --> 01:05:53,839
of it in my book from maureen dowd in

1861
01:05:58,230 --> 01:05:55,680
the new york times

1862
01:06:01,190 --> 01:05:58,240
when uh back in

1863
01:06:02,950 --> 01:06:01,200
oh god 1995 i think it was the us

1864
01:06:05,510 --> 01:06:02,960
government put out its latest lame

1865
01:06:08,390 --> 01:06:05,520
excuse for what roswell was

1866
01:06:11,349 --> 01:06:08,400
and they claimed that yes humanoid

1867
01:06:13,510 --> 01:06:11,359
objects creatures were seen but um they

1868
01:06:15,829 --> 01:06:13,520
were test dummies that were dropped from

1869
01:06:18,390 --> 01:06:15,839
a balloon at 80 000 feet

1870
01:06:20,390 --> 01:06:18,400
and then maureen died just laughed and

1871
01:06:21,990 --> 01:06:20,400
went oh my god if anything's convinced

1872
01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:22,000
me more than ever that the united states

1873
01:06:25,190 --> 01:06:23,440
government is hiding something about

1874
01:06:26,630 --> 01:06:25,200
roswell it's this really lame

1875
01:06:28,069 --> 01:06:26,640
explanation

1876
01:06:29,829 --> 01:06:28,079
i mean

1877
01:06:32,710 --> 01:06:29,839
i don't know what they're hiding about

1878
01:06:34,630 --> 01:06:32,720
roswell i mean i've spoken to people in

1879
01:06:37,510 --> 01:06:34,640
the u.s government who told me that

1880
01:06:39,750 --> 01:06:37,520
roswell was a craft and that it was

1881
01:06:43,029 --> 01:06:39,760
crashed and it was retrieved and that it

1882
01:06:45,349 --> 01:06:43,039
was a crash between two craft

1883
01:06:47,190 --> 01:06:45,359
and they uh interesting both both of

1884
01:06:49,750 --> 01:06:47,200
them crashed and they were retrieved and

1885
01:06:51,029 --> 01:06:49,760
taken to wright-patterson air force base

1886
01:06:53,270 --> 01:06:51,039
but you know

1887
01:06:54,549 --> 01:06:53,280
do i believe that no not really not

1888
01:06:56,470 --> 01:06:54,559
until i've

1889
01:06:58,870 --> 01:06:56,480
got further evidence to substantiate it

1890
01:07:02,789 --> 01:06:58,880
in my mind i mean and so when i read

1891
01:07:07,430 --> 01:07:05,109
i i've looked into the history of

1892
01:07:09,910 --> 01:07:07,440
corso i mean he's

1893
01:07:12,549 --> 01:07:09,920
he was quite amazing i mean he was a

1894
01:07:14,870 --> 01:07:12,559
really interesting figure because he

1895
01:07:16,630 --> 01:07:14,880
you know he was no lightweight and and

1896
01:07:18,630 --> 01:07:16,640
when you look at his service history and

1897
01:07:20,390 --> 01:07:18,640
the people that he was connected with

1898
01:07:22,630 --> 01:07:20,400
it's quite something that he came out

1899
01:07:24,950 --> 01:07:22,640
and said what he said because he really

1900
01:07:26,150 --> 01:07:24,960
effectively destroyed his relationships

1901
01:07:27,829 --> 01:07:26,160
with people in the military and

1902
01:07:29,510 --> 01:07:27,839
intelligence establishment by taking the

1903
01:07:31,430 --> 01:07:29,520
stand that he took

1904
01:07:34,390 --> 01:07:31,440
and

1905
01:07:36,710 --> 01:07:34,400
he wasn't mad he wasn't nuts

1906
01:07:38,230 --> 01:07:36,720
and a lot of a lot of what he said has

1907
01:07:40,549 --> 01:07:38,240
been independently verified and

1908
01:07:41,750 --> 01:07:40,559
validated so yeah i mean i

1909
01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:41,760
i don't know

1910
01:07:45,750 --> 01:07:43,280
whether it's all true i mean i i

1911
01:07:48,230 --> 01:07:45,760
certainly don't buy the explanation that

1912
01:07:50,390 --> 01:07:48,240
all of the technology such as microchips

1913
01:07:51,990 --> 01:07:50,400
and integrated circuits were created as

1914
01:07:54,309 --> 01:07:52,000
a result of recoveries from alien

1915
01:07:56,390 --> 01:07:54,319
spacecraft i think that's nonsense

1916
01:07:59,349 --> 01:07:56,400
but i am persuaded by the fact that the

1917
01:08:01,670 --> 01:07:59,359
guy that co-wrote the book with corso

1918
01:08:03,750 --> 01:08:01,680
uh extrapolated from things that corso

1919
01:08:05,910 --> 01:08:03,760
had told him and misrepresented what

1920
01:08:07,510 --> 01:08:05,920
corso was actually saying

1921
01:08:10,069 --> 01:08:07,520
because i've i've read

1922
01:08:13,589 --> 01:08:10,079
earlier versions of what corso said and

1923
01:08:15,910 --> 01:08:13,599
he didn't say what is attributed to him

1924
01:08:16,870 --> 01:08:15,920
to the extent that is is written in that

1925
01:08:18,390 --> 01:08:16,880
book

1926
01:08:20,950 --> 01:08:18,400
uh i mean i think one of the most

1927
01:08:23,430 --> 01:08:20,960
damaging criticisms of corso is that he

1928
01:08:25,669 --> 01:08:23,440
falsely claimed that

1929
01:08:27,669 --> 01:08:25,679
all of the great breakthroughs and

1930
01:08:30,070 --> 01:08:27,679
stealth technology and integrated

1931
01:08:31,829 --> 01:08:30,080
circuits and even velcro and things like

1932
01:08:33,669 --> 01:08:31,839
that were as a result of what was found

1933
01:08:35,430 --> 01:08:33,679
on an alien spacecraft

1934
01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:35,440
and when you actually go back and look

1935
01:08:40,550 --> 01:08:38,880
as i have done at what he actually said

1936
01:08:42,309 --> 01:08:40,560
and then look at what was ended up put

1937
01:08:43,990 --> 01:08:42,319
it being put in the book

1938
01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:44,000
they're two different things

1939
01:08:49,030 --> 01:08:45,839
i would have loved to have met him i've

1940
01:08:50,309 --> 01:08:49,040
spoken to people who knew him well and

1941
01:08:52,550 --> 01:08:50,319
they've explained very much what i've

1942
01:08:54,789 --> 01:08:52,560
just explained to you as well and they

1943
01:08:56,950 --> 01:08:54,799
think he should be taken seriously

1944
01:08:57,910 --> 01:08:56,960
and i am

1945
01:08:58,950 --> 01:08:57,920
sure

1946
01:09:00,309 --> 01:08:58,960
that

1947
01:09:04,149 --> 01:09:00,319
he was

1948
01:09:06,309 --> 01:09:04,159
in possession of material

1949
01:09:09,110 --> 01:09:06,319
that came from the foreign technology

1950
01:09:11,030 --> 01:09:09,120
division and that he was farming

1951
01:09:13,990 --> 01:09:11,040
some of it up to

1952
01:09:15,590 --> 01:09:14,000
private aerospace and private technology

1953
01:09:17,510 --> 01:09:15,600
what i'm not sure about are some of the

1954
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:17,520
more wild claims that have been made on

1955
01:09:20,229 --> 01:09:18,880
his behalf

1956
01:09:22,630 --> 01:09:20,239
and this is one of the things you have

1957
01:09:22,950 --> 01:09:22,640
to watch out for because

1958
01:09:25,510 --> 01:09:22,960
um

1959
01:09:27,829 --> 01:09:25,520
[Music]

1960
01:09:30,630 --> 01:09:27,839
i'm aware of

1961
01:09:32,470 --> 01:09:30,640
instances where people make claims

1962
01:09:34,950 --> 01:09:32,480
and then all of a sudden they become

1963
01:09:37,189 --> 01:09:34,960
associated with a claim that frankly is

1964
01:09:39,430 --> 01:09:37,199
demonstrably untrue

1965
01:09:41,829 --> 01:09:39,440
and i do think there is active

1966
01:09:44,789 --> 01:09:41,839
disinformation going on at the moment

1967
01:09:47,030 --> 01:09:44,799
even now from forces in

1968
01:09:48,709 --> 01:09:47,040
american intelligence who

1969
01:09:50,070 --> 01:09:48,719
they're not trying to suppress so much

1970
01:09:51,990 --> 01:09:50,080
as they used to they're just trying to

1971
01:09:54,310 --> 01:09:52,000
control because what's happening at the

1972
01:09:57,350 --> 01:09:54,320
moment i think is a decision has been

1973
01:09:59,590 --> 01:09:57,360
made inside the u.s government that yes

1974
01:10:01,750 --> 01:09:59,600
we're now at a stage where we have to

1975
01:10:03,430 --> 01:10:01,760
admit that there is a real phenomenon we

1976
01:10:05,350 --> 01:10:03,440
have to admit that there is an anomalous

1977
01:10:07,270 --> 01:10:05,360
phenomena that is

1978
01:10:09,669 --> 01:10:07,280
real you know we can't deny it anymore

1979
01:10:11,510 --> 01:10:09,679
the too many sensor systems too many

1980
01:10:13,990 --> 01:10:11,520
phased array radar systems are now

1981
01:10:17,830 --> 01:10:14,000
installed on different aircraft too many

1982
01:10:20,229 --> 01:10:17,840
high quality video systems too many

1983
01:10:22,470 --> 01:10:20,239
data points are picking it up we can't

1984
01:10:24,709 --> 01:10:22,480
deny it but what we want to do i think

1985
01:10:26,790 --> 01:10:24,719
there's been an active decision made to

1986
01:10:29,669 --> 01:10:26,800
constrain the

1987
01:10:30,630 --> 01:10:29,679
current uap task force's investigations

1988
01:10:32,310 --> 01:10:30,640
from

1989
01:10:34,310 --> 01:10:32,320
2004.

1990
01:10:35,750 --> 01:10:34,320
i don't think they want us to know

1991
01:10:40,070 --> 01:10:35,760
anything about

1992
01:10:43,510 --> 01:10:41,990
any of the other more extraordinary

1993
01:10:46,070 --> 01:10:43,520
claims that have been made over the

1994
01:10:48,390 --> 01:10:46,080
years by people like corso it's almost

1995
01:10:49,510 --> 01:10:48,400
like what they're trying to do is

1996
01:10:52,070 --> 01:10:49,520
present

1997
01:10:54,390 --> 01:10:52,080
a scenario to the

1998
01:10:56,709 --> 01:10:54,400
american and international public

1999
01:10:58,709 --> 01:10:56,719
where the american government can in a

2000
01:11:00,229 --> 01:10:58,719
few years time go

2001
01:11:02,229 --> 01:11:00,239
guys

2002
01:11:04,390 --> 01:11:02,239
look what we've discovered this is

2003
01:11:06,310 --> 01:11:04,400
amazing um there really is a real

2004
01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:06,320
phenomenon and look we're part way there

2005
01:11:09,590 --> 01:11:07,360
because they've acknowledged the

2006
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:09,600
phenomenon is real but i suspect we'll

2007
01:11:13,830 --> 01:11:10,960
be told that

2008
01:11:15,590 --> 01:11:13,840
you know there is perhaps some

2009
01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:15,600
intelligence that we don't yet

2010
01:11:22,390 --> 01:11:18,960
comprehend that is operating in our

2011
01:11:24,149 --> 01:11:22,400
on our planet i i do i really do suspect

2012
01:11:25,669 --> 01:11:24,159
that and i've been led to that belief by

2013
01:11:28,149 --> 01:11:25,679
people who know

2014
01:11:30,709 --> 01:11:28,159
but i do believe that hopes that we're

2015
01:11:33,590 --> 01:11:30,719
going to see disclosure of the truth

2016
01:11:35,750 --> 01:11:33,600
behind crash recoveries the truth behind

2017
01:11:37,990 --> 01:11:35,760
alleged alien retrievals the truth

2018
01:11:40,149 --> 01:11:38,000
behind mutilations and

2019
01:11:41,750 --> 01:11:40,159
my labs and abductions i don't think

2020
01:11:43,030 --> 01:11:41,760
we'll ever see that

2021
01:11:45,270 --> 01:11:43,040
and i think what's happening at the

2022
01:11:47,189 --> 01:11:45,280
moment is there is a desperate i do

2023
01:11:49,590 --> 01:11:47,199
believe by the way that the united

2024
01:11:51,669 --> 01:11:49,600
states has recovered what it believes is

2025
01:11:54,310 --> 01:11:51,679
non-human technology

2026
01:11:56,550 --> 01:11:54,320
there upset it yeah i think i think i

2027
01:11:58,790 --> 01:11:56,560
think the level of proof is sufficient

2028
01:12:00,790 --> 01:11:58,800
in my mind to assert that there is

2029
01:12:02,149 --> 01:12:00,800
non-human technology in the hands of the

2030
01:12:03,669 --> 01:12:02,159
us government

2031
01:12:05,590 --> 01:12:03,679
but i don't think it wants anybody to

2032
01:12:07,189 --> 01:12:05,600
know that and i think what it's trying

2033
01:12:08,790 --> 01:12:07,199
to do at the moment is control the

2034
01:12:09,669 --> 01:12:08,800
narrative

2035
01:12:11,990 --> 01:12:09,679
and

2036
01:12:12,950 --> 01:12:12,000
i think there's a degree of nervousness

2037
01:12:15,990 --> 01:12:12,960
about

2038
01:12:18,229 --> 01:12:16,000
letting the uap task force run

2039
01:12:21,510 --> 01:12:18,239
because i do think

2040
01:12:24,630 --> 01:12:21,520
the people in tom delong's to the stars

2041
01:12:27,510 --> 01:12:24,640
academy we're getting close to

2042
01:12:29,270 --> 01:12:27,520
highly classified secure special access

2043
01:12:31,669 --> 01:12:29,280
programs that are kept completely off

2044
01:12:33,430 --> 01:12:31,679
the books inside the us government that

2045
01:12:35,430 --> 01:12:33,440
aren't part of the normal disclosure

2046
01:12:36,709 --> 01:12:35,440
process before congress even before the

2047
01:12:38,470 --> 01:12:36,719
gang of eight you know waived

2048
01:12:40,310 --> 01:12:38,480
unacknowledged special access programs

2049
01:12:42,390 --> 01:12:40,320
it's way beyond that

2050
01:12:43,750 --> 01:12:42,400
and i do believe that the us is sitting

2051
01:12:46,149 --> 01:12:43,760
on technology that it's trying to

2052
01:12:47,590 --> 01:12:46,159
suppress its knowledge of its existence

2053
01:12:49,669 --> 01:12:47,600
and i don't know how they're going to

2054
01:12:51,590 --> 01:12:49,679
get away with that and

2055
01:12:54,149 --> 01:12:51,600
it worries me because

2056
01:12:55,830 --> 01:12:54,159
it raises accountability issues

2057
01:12:57,910 --> 01:12:55,840
you know why hasn't the congress been

2058
01:12:59,450 --> 01:12:57,920
enformed why have presidents been kept

2059
01:13:00,950 --> 01:12:59,460
in the dark

2060
01:13:04,310 --> 01:13:00,960
[Music]

2061
01:13:06,070 --> 01:13:04,320
what have presidents been told

2062
01:13:07,669 --> 01:13:06,080
you know for example it's quite obvious

2063
01:13:10,870 --> 01:13:07,679
to me if you look

2064
01:13:12,229 --> 01:13:10,880
between the lines of what both obama

2065
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:12,239
trump

2066
01:13:13,990 --> 01:13:12,770
clinton

2067
01:13:16,470 --> 01:13:14,000
[Music]

2068
01:13:18,070 --> 01:13:16,480
jimmy carter have all said it's quite

2069
01:13:20,229 --> 01:13:18,080
obvious that presidents have been

2070
01:13:22,709 --> 01:13:20,239
briefed in to some degree

2071
01:13:25,669 --> 01:13:22,719
but what have they been told you know

2072
01:13:28,229 --> 01:13:25,679
uh is there a group of generals and

2073
01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:28,239
intelligence people inside the uh

2074
01:13:33,110 --> 01:13:30,400
the pentagon and the cia who are trying

2075
01:13:34,950 --> 01:13:33,120
to control the narrative i i suspect

2076
01:13:37,030 --> 01:13:34,960
there is and i think there's a battle

2077
01:13:38,950 --> 01:13:37,040
going on inside

2078
01:13:40,229 --> 01:13:38,960
different intelligence agencies in the

2079
01:13:42,070 --> 01:13:40,239
us

2080
01:13:44,149 --> 01:13:42,080
to try and

2081
01:13:46,550 --> 01:13:44,159
one one group is more open and

2082
01:13:48,390 --> 01:13:46,560
transparent and thinking that their duty

2083
01:13:51,189 --> 01:13:48,400
banned under the constitution to be more

2084
01:13:53,030 --> 01:13:51,199
open and obliging to reveal what they

2085
01:13:55,110 --> 01:13:53,040
know because there's no good reason not

2086
01:13:57,510 --> 01:13:55,120
to reveal it but there's another group

2087
01:14:01,430 --> 01:13:57,520
that probably also because of religious

2088
01:14:03,510 --> 01:14:01,440
ardent zealotry uh reluctant to see the

2089
01:14:05,430 --> 01:14:03,520
full story told i think for a lot of

2090
01:14:07,910 --> 01:14:05,440
people who are of extreme religious

2091
01:14:10,070 --> 01:14:07,920
faith and that's not to be in any way

2092
01:14:11,830 --> 01:14:10,080
critical of people who are believers

2093
01:14:13,510 --> 01:14:11,840
um i think a lot of people because i do

2094
01:14:15,590 --> 01:14:13,520
think you know i think the vatican for

2095
01:14:17,270 --> 01:14:15,600
example has made it quite clear that if

2096
01:14:19,510 --> 01:14:17,280
you are religious and if you believe in

2097
01:14:21,750 --> 01:14:19,520
ets we are they are all god's children

2098
01:14:24,149 --> 01:14:21,760
you know i don't think the idea of

2099
01:14:25,750 --> 01:14:24,159
alien life is incompatible and people

2100
01:14:27,510 --> 01:14:25,760
should take a closer look at what

2101
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:27,520
religious institutions like the vatican

2102
01:14:30,470 --> 01:14:29,280
have actually said about this

2103
01:14:32,390 --> 01:14:30,480
but

2104
01:14:34,950 --> 01:14:32,400
i'm told and i've been told this by

2105
01:14:37,910 --> 01:14:34,960
multiple sources that there are people

2106
01:14:40,310 --> 01:14:37,920
of extreme conservative religious

2107
01:14:42,310 --> 01:14:40,320
viewpoints inside the cia

2108
01:14:44,870 --> 01:14:42,320
and also inside the defense intelligence

2109
01:14:47,189 --> 01:14:44,880
agency and other agencies who are

2110
01:14:49,030 --> 01:14:47,199
hostile to

2111
01:14:50,630 --> 01:14:49,040
revealing the extent of what the us

2112
01:14:52,149 --> 01:14:50,640
government knows

2113
01:14:53,910 --> 01:14:52,159
and i do know because they believe it's

2114
01:14:55,350 --> 01:14:53,920
connected to what's demonic

2115
01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:55,360
i think it's demonic they think it's

2116
01:14:57,669 --> 01:14:56,400
satanic

2117
01:15:00,950 --> 01:14:57,679
and who knows

2118
01:15:02,630 --> 01:15:00,960
i mean i'm not religious but it might be

2119
01:15:04,070 --> 01:15:02,640
maybe we're all going down a very

2120
01:15:05,750 --> 01:15:04,080
dangerous path

2121
01:15:07,430 --> 01:15:05,760
right

2122
01:15:09,189 --> 01:15:07,440
okay so this question comes from harry

2123
01:15:11,990 --> 01:15:09,199
white he wants to know if you've seen

2124
01:15:13,910 --> 01:15:12,000
any orbs or any ufo

2125
01:15:15,830 --> 01:15:13,920
phenomenon or

2126
01:15:18,870 --> 01:15:15,840
and or what is his opinion with the

2127
01:15:22,630 --> 01:15:20,390
i don't know what he means oh you mean

2128
01:15:25,270 --> 01:15:22,640
ce5 that sort of thing i'll assume

2129
01:15:26,950 --> 01:15:25,280
that's what he means okay um i i i

2130
01:15:29,430 --> 01:15:26,960
haven't had any direct experiences

2131
01:15:32,229 --> 01:15:29,440
myself with the phenomenon i wish i had

2132
01:15:34,390 --> 01:15:32,239
i'd love it if make your job easier

2133
01:15:36,550 --> 01:15:34,400
oh wouldn't it be fantastic i've

2134
01:15:39,669 --> 01:15:36,560
i i have been there's a guy called

2135
01:15:41,350 --> 01:15:39,679
damian not no double t here in australia

2136
01:15:44,550 --> 01:15:41,360
who's quite

2137
01:15:45,350 --> 01:15:44,560
astonishing with his ability to

2138
01:15:47,270 --> 01:15:45,360
know

2139
01:15:49,669 --> 01:15:47,280
when the phenomenon is about to manifest

2140
01:15:51,430 --> 01:15:49,679
itself and i remember he was

2141
01:15:53,510 --> 01:15:51,440
i was sitting with him on a sofa in his

2142
01:15:55,830 --> 01:15:53,520
house in pennant hills in north eastern

2143
01:15:58,070 --> 01:15:55,840
sydney and northwestern sydney and

2144
01:15:59,990 --> 01:15:58,080
he just suddenly went up excuse me

2145
01:16:01,910 --> 01:16:00,000
grabbed a camera went outside

2146
01:16:03,030 --> 01:16:01,920
pointed it up in the air and

2147
01:16:05,270 --> 01:16:03,040
got

2148
01:16:06,709 --> 01:16:05,280
vision of an object moving erratically

2149
01:16:08,870 --> 01:16:06,719
across the sky and i said how did you

2150
01:16:12,070 --> 01:16:08,880
know that that was going to be there and

2151
01:16:14,790 --> 01:16:12,080
he went i i don't know i just don't know

2152
01:16:18,229 --> 01:16:14,800
but um i commend his work he he did an

2153
01:16:21,030 --> 01:16:18,239
excellent film called austra alien skies

2154
01:16:22,790 --> 01:16:21,040
alien as in a-l-i-e-n

2155
01:16:24,550 --> 01:16:22,800
um but um

2156
01:16:27,189 --> 01:16:24,560
he's just got the most extraordinary

2157
01:16:29,510 --> 01:16:27,199
collection of um

2158
01:16:31,430 --> 01:16:29,520
objects that he's seen and he does seem

2159
01:16:33,910 --> 01:16:31,440
to be able to mentally engage with the

2160
01:16:37,350 --> 01:16:33,920
phenomenon i mean and when when i've got

2161
01:16:40,550 --> 01:16:37,360
as i have done i've got people in

2162
01:16:42,310 --> 01:16:40,560
defense and intelligence in the us

2163
01:16:46,310 --> 01:16:42,320
telling me that whatever this phenomenon

2164
01:16:49,990 --> 01:16:48,310
in a mental way in almost a telepathic

2165
01:16:51,110 --> 01:16:50,000
way with human beings

2166
01:16:53,189 --> 01:16:51,120
i don't know

2167
01:16:55,430 --> 01:16:53,199
you know the debunkers can scoff as much

2168
01:16:56,950 --> 01:16:55,440
as they like you know i i i mean when

2169
01:16:59,669 --> 01:16:56,960
people are telling me this

2170
01:17:02,390 --> 01:16:59,679
i i i can't dismiss it and more

2171
01:17:05,510 --> 01:17:02,400
importantly i've i've seen

2172
01:17:06,390 --> 01:17:05,520
people who purport to be able to do what

2173
01:17:10,070 --> 01:17:06,400
um

2174
01:17:10,750 --> 01:17:10,080
i think stephen greer calls uh ce5

2175
01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:10,760
and um

2176
01:17:13,430 --> 01:17:12,080
[Music]

2177
01:17:14,830 --> 01:17:13,440
you know

2178
01:17:17,030 --> 01:17:14,840
i can't dismiss

2179
01:17:19,430 --> 01:17:17,040
it speaking on the topic of

2180
01:17:21,270 --> 01:17:19,440
consciousness and ufos there aren't many

2181
01:17:22,950 --> 01:17:21,280
places with quality documentaries on the

2182
01:17:25,430 --> 01:17:22,960
subject if you're endeavoring to learn

2183
01:17:27,350 --> 01:17:25,440
more about those topics curiosity stream

2184
01:17:29,510 --> 01:17:27,360
access and ancilla to that quest

2185
01:17:31,910 --> 01:17:29,520
furnishing a variety of documentaries on

2186
01:17:34,149 --> 01:17:31,920
consciousness and ufos i recommend you

2187
01:17:36,470 --> 01:17:34,159
watch stephen hawking's favorite places

2188
01:17:38,229 --> 01:17:36,480
which combines quite a few of the

2189
01:17:40,950 --> 01:17:38,239
interests of this channel namely the

2190
01:17:43,189 --> 01:17:40,960
unification quest in physics alien life

2191
01:17:45,350 --> 01:17:43,199
and artificial intelligence go to

2192
01:17:47,750 --> 01:17:45,360
curiositystream.com

2193
01:17:49,750 --> 01:17:47,760
toe that is t-o-e for unlimited access

2194
01:17:51,830 --> 01:17:49,760
to some of the world's top documentaries

2195
01:17:55,110 --> 01:17:51,840
and non-fiction series use the promo

2196
01:17:57,669 --> 01:17:55,120
code t-o-e to get 25 off the annual

2197
01:18:00,310 --> 01:17:57,679
subscription that amounts to just about

2198
01:18:02,229 --> 01:18:00,320
fifteen dollars that's approximately one

2199
01:18:03,830 --> 01:18:02,239
dollar per month which trounces

2200
01:18:05,910 --> 01:18:03,840
virtually any of the other video

2201
01:18:07,750 --> 01:18:05,920
streaming services the link is below and

2202
01:18:09,750 --> 01:18:07,760
do let me know what you think of stephen

2203
01:18:12,870 --> 01:18:09,760
hawking's favorite places

2204
01:18:14,870 --> 01:18:12,880
okay this question comes from poop digg

2205
01:18:18,070 --> 01:18:14,880
what does he think i know

2206
01:18:19,669 --> 01:18:18,080
what does he think of admiral wilson i

2207
01:18:21,910 --> 01:18:19,679
mean why does he think admiral wilson

2208
01:18:23,510 --> 01:18:21,920
docks are legit and i believe you've

2209
01:18:26,390 --> 01:18:23,520
explained this in your in plain sight

2210
01:18:29,350 --> 01:18:26,400
but if you can give it to people yeah

2211
01:18:31,990 --> 01:18:29,360
actually actually if he reads my book he

2212
01:18:33,830 --> 01:18:32,000
would see that i can see at the end of

2213
01:18:36,630 --> 01:18:33,840
my analysis of the admiral wilson

2214
01:18:39,590 --> 01:18:36,640
documents that we cannot reach any

2215
01:18:41,350 --> 01:18:39,600
conclusion about them until and if

2216
01:18:43,750 --> 01:18:41,360
either tom wilson

2217
01:18:45,750 --> 01:18:43,760
or eric davis concedes that the

2218
01:18:47,430 --> 01:18:45,760
documents are a real account of a real

2219
01:18:50,229 --> 01:18:47,440
conversation

2220
01:18:52,630 --> 01:18:50,239
um i do believe

2221
01:18:54,870 --> 01:18:52,640
that there is a strong body of evidence

2222
01:18:58,229 --> 01:18:54,880
to suggest that the provenance of the

2223
01:19:00,229 --> 01:18:58,239
documents is very very solid and

2224
01:19:03,430 --> 01:19:00,239
i write about a guy to whom i give the

2225
01:19:04,550 --> 01:19:03,440
student in my book the space man

2226
01:19:08,070 --> 01:19:04,560
and

2227
01:19:09,270 --> 01:19:08,080
he was a very very close friend of edgar

2228
01:19:12,149 --> 01:19:09,280
mitchell

2229
01:19:14,870 --> 01:19:12,159
and it turned out when he got to know me

2230
01:19:18,630 --> 01:19:14,880
he confided that he was the custodian of

2231
01:19:19,910 --> 01:19:18,640
edgar mitchell's private ufo archives

2232
01:19:22,470 --> 01:19:19,920
and

2233
01:19:25,270 --> 01:19:22,480
he allowed me access to those archives

2234
01:19:27,189 --> 01:19:25,280
and in those archives is the original of

2235
01:19:30,390 --> 01:19:27,199
the admiral wilson document that was

2236
01:19:32,470 --> 01:19:30,400
leaked out onto the web in about 2018

2237
01:19:34,790 --> 01:19:32,480
and that was done by a good friend of

2238
01:19:37,830 --> 01:19:34,800
mine here in australia james

2239
01:19:40,550 --> 01:19:37,840
rigney who passed it on to grant cameron

2240
01:19:41,750 --> 01:19:40,560
and richard dolan

2241
01:19:43,750 --> 01:19:41,760
so

2242
01:19:47,350 --> 01:19:43,760
i'm very sure

2243
01:19:49,590 --> 01:19:47,360
of the provenance of the admiral wilson

2244
01:19:50,709 --> 01:19:49,600
document it came from edgar mitchell's

2245
01:19:52,470 --> 01:19:50,719
estate

2246
01:19:55,430 --> 01:19:52,480
and i'm also very sure that it was

2247
01:19:58,070 --> 01:19:55,440
written by dr eric davis a man for whom

2248
01:19:59,430 --> 01:19:58,080
i have an enormous amount of respect

2249
01:20:06,070 --> 01:19:59,440
um

2250
01:20:07,750 --> 01:20:06,080
was faxed by dr hal put off to

2251
01:20:10,310 --> 01:20:07,760
edgar mitchell because edgar mitchell

2252
01:20:12,470 --> 01:20:10,320
was on the science advisory board for

2253
01:20:14,950 --> 01:20:12,480
the national institute of discovery

2254
01:20:16,550 --> 01:20:14,960
science which was the private

2255
01:20:18,229 --> 01:20:16,560
science investigative body that was

2256
01:20:21,030 --> 01:20:18,239
investigating the paranormal for bob

2257
01:20:22,790 --> 01:20:21,040
bigelow the aerospace and real estate

2258
01:20:26,870 --> 01:20:22,800
entrepreneur

2259
01:20:29,830 --> 01:20:26,880
and i've also done an analysis of the

2260
01:20:31,189 --> 01:20:29,840
comments made by all of the people

2261
01:20:33,590 --> 01:20:31,199
who are

2262
01:20:35,110 --> 01:20:33,600
parties if you like to the prominence of

2263
01:20:36,070 --> 01:20:35,120
the document

2264
01:20:38,310 --> 01:20:36,080
and

2265
01:20:39,910 --> 01:20:38,320
none of them you would think let me put

2266
01:20:41,910 --> 01:20:39,920
it this way

2267
01:20:44,830 --> 01:20:41,920
if you were eric davis

2268
01:20:48,790 --> 01:20:44,840
and people were circulating a document

2269
01:20:51,590 --> 01:20:48,800
that purports to be eric davis's notes

2270
01:20:53,910 --> 01:20:51,600
of his alleged conversation with admiral

2271
01:20:56,390 --> 01:20:53,920
tom wilson the immediate past director

2272
01:20:59,030 --> 01:20:56,400
of the defense intelligence agency

2273
01:21:00,870 --> 01:20:59,040
in a car park ironically the car park at

2274
01:21:03,110 --> 01:21:00,880
and g you couldn't get more spooky than

2275
01:21:04,629 --> 01:21:03,120
that you know the eg g company in las

2276
01:21:06,790 --> 01:21:04,639
vegas

2277
01:21:08,149 --> 01:21:06,800
and they're discussing

2278
01:21:10,550 --> 01:21:08,159
a covert

2279
01:21:12,709 --> 01:21:10,560
aerospace company's concealment on

2280
01:21:14,310 --> 01:21:12,719
behalf of certain elements of the us

2281
01:21:15,910 --> 01:21:14,320
government and intelligence

2282
01:21:16,950 --> 01:21:15,920
establishment

2283
01:21:18,310 --> 01:21:16,960
of

2284
01:21:21,430 --> 01:21:18,320
retrieved

2285
01:21:24,629 --> 01:21:21,440
alien technology and how it's been kept

2286
01:21:30,070 --> 01:21:27,270
u s public for so many years

2287
01:21:33,030 --> 01:21:30,080
you would expect that such a wild wacky

2288
01:21:35,350 --> 01:21:33,040
conspiracy theory would be immediately

2289
01:21:38,310 --> 01:21:35,360
denied by

2290
01:21:39,350 --> 01:21:38,320
a man with a security oath to protect

2291
01:21:42,310 --> 01:21:39,360
and

2292
01:21:44,709 --> 01:21:42,320
you know a need to be seen to be a loyal

2293
01:21:46,310 --> 01:21:44,719
patriot of america you know you wouldn't

2294
01:21:49,030 --> 01:21:46,320
want false rumors to be being

2295
01:21:51,750 --> 01:21:49,040
disseminated on your name

2296
01:21:53,750 --> 01:21:51,760
but what has eric davis done if anything

2297
01:21:55,990 --> 01:21:53,760
in an interview with stephen greenstreet

2298
01:21:58,149 --> 01:21:56,000
on the basement which for some perverse

2299
01:22:00,229 --> 01:21:58,159
reason green street took down

2300
01:22:02,550 --> 01:22:00,239
eric davis

2301
01:22:04,629 --> 01:22:02,560
uh made a number of admissions that i

2302
01:22:06,709 --> 01:22:04,639
thought were quite pertinent to this and

2303
01:22:07,750 --> 01:22:06,719
i write about them in the book

2304
01:22:10,149 --> 01:22:07,760
um

2305
01:22:12,470 --> 01:22:10,159
tom wilson of course admiral tom wilson

2306
01:22:15,030 --> 01:22:12,480
in a letter to me has adamantly denied

2307
01:22:17,910 --> 01:22:15,040
that any such conversation took place

2308
01:22:21,270 --> 01:22:17,920
but on analysis at the end of all of it

2309
01:22:23,110 --> 01:22:21,280
whilst i say i cannot

2310
01:22:25,669 --> 01:22:23,120
rule out the possibility that the

2311
01:22:27,669 --> 01:22:25,679
document is real and that it records a

2312
01:22:29,750 --> 01:22:27,679
valid conversation and possibly real

2313
01:22:31,669 --> 01:22:29,760
events

2314
01:22:34,550 --> 01:22:31,679
because i can't get anybody on the

2315
01:22:36,790 --> 01:22:34,560
record to prove the document to to

2316
01:22:38,550 --> 01:22:36,800
establish that it is a genuine record of

2317
01:22:40,550 --> 01:22:38,560
essentially a truthful conversation and

2318
01:22:42,950 --> 01:22:40,560
that that truthful conversation records

2319
01:22:44,629 --> 01:22:42,960
actual facts actual reality not

2320
01:22:46,709 --> 01:22:44,639
disinformation

2321
01:22:49,830 --> 01:22:46,719
um i'm not prepared to assert that the

2322
01:22:52,550 --> 01:22:49,840
april tom wilson memo is for real

2323
01:22:55,430 --> 01:22:52,560
uh so contrary to what your interrogator

2324
01:22:57,990 --> 01:22:55,440
poses i'm not saying that i have

2325
01:22:59,669 --> 01:22:58,000
validated it to my satisfaction that it

2326
01:23:01,189 --> 01:22:59,679
records real events

2327
01:23:04,390 --> 01:23:01,199
what i have said is that there are

2328
01:23:06,070 --> 01:23:04,400
aspects of the

2329
01:23:09,430 --> 01:23:06,080
responses from the different parties

2330
01:23:10,870 --> 01:23:09,440
that don't make sense if that document

2331
01:23:12,310 --> 01:23:10,880
is a fake

2332
01:23:14,149 --> 01:23:12,320
because don't you think i mean this is a

2333
01:23:16,070 --> 01:23:14,159
guy eric davis works for aerospace

2334
01:23:18,629 --> 01:23:16,080
corporation and he's working on

2335
01:23:20,950 --> 01:23:18,639
apparently uh propulsion technologies

2336
01:23:22,629 --> 01:23:20,960
next generation propulsion technologies

2337
01:23:25,510 --> 01:23:22,639
there is no doubt in my mind he has to

2338
01:23:27,110 --> 01:23:25,520
have a top secret sci compartmentalized

2339
01:23:29,590 --> 01:23:27,120
security clearance in order to do that

2340
01:23:31,430 --> 01:23:29,600
so he has to be positive vetted to make

2341
01:23:32,830 --> 01:23:31,440
sure that he's a

2342
01:23:35,750 --> 01:23:32,840
a decent

2343
01:23:37,990 --> 01:23:35,760
man who's allowed to be given america's

2344
01:23:40,950 --> 01:23:38,000
most sensitive secrets

2345
01:23:44,790 --> 01:23:40,960
don't you think that if he was aware

2346
01:23:49,270 --> 01:23:47,350
he'd say so

2347
01:23:51,990 --> 01:23:49,280
and he's never done that

2348
01:23:54,070 --> 01:23:52,000
and that to me is the most conspicuous

2349
01:23:56,790 --> 01:23:54,080
part of the entire admiral wilson

2350
01:23:58,229 --> 01:23:56,800
document saga i know it's complex but it

2351
01:23:59,990 --> 01:23:58,239
really is worth people getting their

2352
01:24:01,510 --> 01:24:00,000
heads around and that's why i went to a

2353
01:24:03,750 --> 01:24:01,520
lot of trouble to write about it in my

2354
01:24:06,149 --> 01:24:03,760
book i wanted people to understand the

2355
01:24:07,830 --> 01:24:06,159
history of the document and how it was

2356
01:24:10,310 --> 01:24:07,840
that admiral wilson

2357
01:24:13,110 --> 01:24:10,320
allegedly came to make those inquiries

2358
01:24:15,990 --> 01:24:13,120
because all credit to

2359
01:24:17,910 --> 01:24:16,000
dr stephen greer interestingly he's long

2360
01:24:19,110 --> 01:24:17,920
mocked and ridiculed by a lot of people

2361
01:24:20,550 --> 01:24:19,120
in

2362
01:24:22,310 --> 01:24:20,560
ufo research

2363
01:24:24,149 --> 01:24:22,320
it was he who initiated with edgar

2364
01:24:26,950 --> 01:24:24,159
mitchell a meeting with admiral tom

2365
01:24:29,270 --> 01:24:26,960
wilson in 1997 that kicked the ball off

2366
01:24:31,030 --> 01:24:29,280
the ball off and tom admitted to me that

2367
01:24:33,669 --> 01:24:31,040
meeting took place

2368
01:24:34,709 --> 01:24:33,679
and there are five people um stephen

2369
01:24:37,990 --> 01:24:34,719
greer

2370
01:24:40,070 --> 01:24:38,000
edgar mitchell sherry adamiak commander

2371
01:24:42,470 --> 01:24:40,080
willard miller

2372
01:24:45,030 --> 01:24:42,480
and i think one other who were all

2373
01:24:46,950 --> 01:24:45,040
present and who heard allegedly tom

2374
01:24:48,550 --> 01:24:46,960
wilson making admissions about his

2375
01:24:49,910 --> 01:24:48,560
inability to get to the bottom of the

2376
01:24:51,990 --> 01:24:49,920
truth of the matter

2377
01:24:54,149 --> 01:24:52,000
about uaps

2378
01:24:56,149 --> 01:24:54,159
so you have to take into context the

2379
01:24:58,390 --> 01:24:56,159
assertions of all of these people as

2380
01:24:59,189 --> 01:24:58,400
direct witnesses with what is being said

2381
01:25:00,870 --> 01:24:59,199
by

2382
01:25:02,709 --> 01:25:00,880
a past director of the defense

2383
01:25:05,030 --> 01:25:02,719
intelligence agency

2384
01:25:07,189 --> 01:25:05,040
who makes it very very clear in the memo

2385
01:25:09,750 --> 01:25:07,199
in question that if it ever becomes

2386
01:25:11,430 --> 01:25:09,760
public he would have to lie about it

2387
01:25:14,070 --> 01:25:11,440
and nobody

2388
01:25:15,910 --> 01:25:14,080
is to say anything frankly in my view

2389
01:25:18,229 --> 01:25:15,920
that should detract from the fact that

2390
01:25:19,270 --> 01:25:18,239
admiral tom wilson is an honorable

2391
01:25:20,229 --> 01:25:19,280
decent

2392
01:25:21,590 --> 01:25:20,239
loyal

2393
01:25:23,510 --> 01:25:21,600
patriot

2394
01:25:25,990 --> 01:25:23,520
if i was in his position

2395
01:25:28,790 --> 01:25:26,000
that's exactly what i would do he's

2396
01:25:30,790 --> 01:25:28,800
bound by a security oath and frankly it

2397
01:25:33,030 --> 01:25:30,800
may very well be that there is some

2398
01:25:35,189 --> 01:25:33,040
solid national security reason that you

2399
01:25:37,350 --> 01:25:35,199
and i don't yet know that explains why

2400
01:25:39,030 --> 01:25:37,360
we're not allowed to know this stuff

2401
01:25:40,550 --> 01:25:39,040
that's one thing i've been really

2402
01:25:42,310 --> 01:25:40,560
struggling with and i just want to make

2403
01:25:44,149 --> 01:25:42,320
this point and frankly if there's

2404
01:25:45,910 --> 01:25:44,159
anybody out there from any of those

2405
01:25:48,390 --> 01:25:45,920
three letter agencies that's watching

2406
01:25:50,149 --> 01:25:48,400
this i'm wide open to this because this

2407
01:25:51,910 --> 01:25:50,159
has happened to me before

2408
01:25:54,470 --> 01:25:51,920
i once became aware of a military

2409
01:25:56,149 --> 01:25:54,480
deployment by australian forces overseas

2410
01:25:57,350 --> 01:25:56,159
and i was given a heads up that it was

2411
01:25:58,790 --> 01:25:57,360
happening

2412
01:26:00,790 --> 01:25:58,800
and

2413
01:26:02,870 --> 01:26:00,800
i queried the defense department about

2414
01:26:05,270 --> 01:26:02,880
it and

2415
01:26:06,950 --> 01:26:05,280
i was asked not to run it

2416
01:26:09,830 --> 01:26:06,960
and i didn't run it because there was no

2417
01:26:11,910 --> 01:26:09,840
good reason for me to jeopardize the

2418
01:26:13,590 --> 01:26:11,920
safety of australian troops being

2419
01:26:15,189 --> 01:26:13,600
deployed overseas

2420
01:26:17,750 --> 01:26:15,199
just for a story

2421
01:26:19,510 --> 01:26:17,760
and in this case i've asked people i've

2422
01:26:22,070 --> 01:26:19,520
said to people is there a legitimate

2423
01:26:24,310 --> 01:26:22,080
reason why we're not allowed to know

2424
01:26:26,310 --> 01:26:24,320
about what it is that the united states

2425
01:26:28,550 --> 01:26:26,320
government knows the extent of what it

2426
01:26:30,709 --> 01:26:28,560
knows about the phenomenon

2427
01:26:32,950 --> 01:26:30,719
and nobody that i've spoken to has been

2428
01:26:34,790 --> 01:26:32,960
able to give me a good answer

2429
01:26:36,390 --> 01:26:34,800
nobody's been able to give me any solid

2430
01:26:37,910 --> 01:26:36,400
national security reason in fact they've

2431
01:26:39,750 --> 01:26:37,920
suggested that it's just been kept

2432
01:26:42,550 --> 01:26:39,760
secret for no good reason it's just a

2433
01:26:45,030 --> 01:26:42,560
relic of the cold war and now there is a

2434
01:26:47,030 --> 01:26:45,040
small cluster of generals admirals and

2435
01:26:49,110 --> 01:26:47,040
spooks and politicians who are a bit

2436
01:26:50,950 --> 01:26:49,120
embarrassed that if it all does become

2437
01:26:52,790 --> 01:26:50,960
public they're going to have to admit

2438
01:26:55,110 --> 01:26:52,800
that they've lied for years to the

2439
01:26:56,790 --> 01:26:55,120
american public the parent presidents

2440
01:26:59,990 --> 01:26:56,800
have been deceived and there's probably

2441
01:27:03,030 --> 01:27:00,000
been criminal contempts of congress and

2442
01:27:05,430 --> 01:27:03,040
this is why there should be

2443
01:27:06,229 --> 01:27:05,440
hearings in congress

2444
01:27:08,790 --> 01:27:06,239
but

2445
01:27:10,709 --> 01:27:08,800
i can understand why it might be

2446
01:27:12,390 --> 01:27:10,719
necessary for some of those hearings to

2447
01:27:14,149 --> 01:27:12,400
be held in camera

2448
01:27:16,629 --> 01:27:14,159
because the people that

2449
01:27:18,390 --> 01:27:16,639
america trusts with its secrets the

2450
01:27:19,910 --> 01:27:18,400
congress the oversight bodies like the

2451
01:27:22,149 --> 01:27:19,920
senate intelligence committee or the

2452
01:27:23,830 --> 01:27:22,159
armed services committee they should at

2453
01:27:26,070 --> 01:27:23,840
least have an opportunity to say to

2454
01:27:27,750 --> 01:27:26,080
these people under oath

2455
01:27:30,390 --> 01:27:27,760
okay

2456
01:27:32,070 --> 01:27:30,400
we now know that there is a x

2457
01:27:34,229 --> 01:27:32,080
issue that you've never revealed to us

2458
01:27:37,830 --> 01:27:34,239
before about the uh the united states

2459
01:27:39,270 --> 01:27:37,840
knowing about uaps ufos

2460
01:27:41,830 --> 01:27:39,280
why haven't you told us about this

2461
01:27:43,590 --> 01:27:41,840
before what's that reason and under oath

2462
01:27:46,470 --> 01:27:43,600
in confidential hearing they should be

2463
01:27:48,229 --> 01:27:46,480
given an opportunity to explain that

2464
01:27:50,149 --> 01:27:48,239
and then frankly

2465
01:27:52,149 --> 01:27:50,159
if they can't explain it

2466
01:27:54,470 --> 01:27:52,159
then the public should be told

2467
01:27:56,470 --> 01:27:54,480
but oddly i as a journalist see i have a

2468
01:27:57,990 --> 01:27:56,480
responsibility because i often get told

2469
01:28:00,149 --> 01:27:58,000
things that i shouldn't

2470
01:28:02,070 --> 01:28:00,159
i have a responsibility to ensure that

2471
01:28:04,629 --> 01:28:02,080
i'm not jeopardizing public safety or

2472
01:28:06,550 --> 01:28:04,639
national security by inadvertently

2473
01:28:07,830 --> 01:28:06,560
revealing something i shouldn't

2474
01:28:09,430 --> 01:28:07,840
so i've been giving people that

2475
01:28:10,950 --> 01:28:09,440
opportunity along the way i've been

2476
01:28:12,830 --> 01:28:10,960
waiting for somebody to tell me hey

2477
01:28:15,750 --> 01:28:12,840
listen there's a really good reason for

2478
01:28:17,750 --> 01:28:15,760
this and

2479
01:28:20,790 --> 01:28:17,760
look i've had a number of explanations

2480
01:28:22,550 --> 01:28:20,800
that i'm not quite sure about yet but

2481
01:28:23,990 --> 01:28:22,560
none of which i'm ready to talk about

2482
01:28:26,070 --> 01:28:24,000
publicly but

2483
01:28:28,470 --> 01:28:26,080
i'm not satisfied that there is a good

2484
01:28:29,830 --> 01:28:28,480
reason and i want to hear it

2485
01:28:31,910 --> 01:28:29,840
so if there is one

2486
01:28:33,750 --> 01:28:31,920
tell me

2487
01:28:35,030 --> 01:28:33,760
can't they just say national security

2488
01:28:36,790 --> 01:28:35,040
and that's the reason why we didn't tell

2489
01:28:38,550 --> 01:28:36,800
anyone

2490
01:28:42,550 --> 01:28:38,560
are you gonna

2491
01:28:44,390 --> 01:28:42,560
excuse i'm not i mean i've been

2492
01:28:46,550 --> 01:28:44,400
told so many times that something's a

2493
01:28:48,229 --> 01:28:46,560
subject of national security and i mean

2494
01:28:49,910 --> 01:28:48,239
i remember look at the um

2495
01:28:51,590 --> 01:28:49,920
look at the warrantless wiretapping that

2496
01:28:54,149 --> 01:28:51,600
was going on under the under your

2497
01:28:56,629 --> 01:28:54,159
legislation under the u.s legislation

2498
01:28:57,910 --> 01:28:56,639
where the national security agency and

2499
01:28:59,750 --> 01:28:57,920
other government departments were

2500
01:29:01,750 --> 01:28:59,760
essentially illegally allowed to

2501
01:29:04,070 --> 01:29:01,760
warrantlessly wiretap

2502
01:29:05,270 --> 01:29:04,080
hundreds of millions of innocent

2503
01:29:07,350 --> 01:29:05,280
americans

2504
01:29:09,910 --> 01:29:07,360
in what was essentially an overreaction

2505
01:29:12,709 --> 01:29:09,920
to 911 and it was a fundamental breach

2506
01:29:13,430 --> 01:29:12,719
of the constitutional rights of freedoms

2507
01:29:14,950 --> 01:29:13,440
of

2508
01:29:17,830 --> 01:29:14,960
you know being allowed to have a private

2509
01:29:21,030 --> 01:29:17,840
conversation you know privacy is a right

2510
01:29:23,350 --> 01:29:21,040
and uh you know we

2511
01:29:25,270 --> 01:29:23,360
we can't just glibly accept assertions

2512
01:29:28,950 --> 01:29:25,280
of national security claims like that

2513
01:29:31,430 --> 01:29:28,960
need to be tested tyranny starts when

2514
01:29:33,590 --> 01:29:31,440
governments use secrets to conceal

2515
01:29:36,070 --> 01:29:33,600
mistakes and that's that's my worry here

2516
01:29:37,110 --> 01:29:36,080
my worry here is that the explanation

2517
01:29:39,270 --> 01:29:37,120
for

2518
01:29:41,990 --> 01:29:39,280
what has happened with the ufo

2519
01:29:43,590 --> 01:29:42,000
phenomenon is purely and simply that

2520
01:29:46,229 --> 01:29:43,600
years ago

2521
01:29:48,229 --> 01:29:46,239
some pompous general decided that it was

2522
01:29:50,070 --> 01:29:48,239
better to keep it confidential because

2523
01:29:50,870 --> 01:29:50,080
you know we know better than the rest of

2524
01:29:54,870 --> 01:29:50,880
you

2525
01:29:57,270 --> 01:29:54,880
replicate this technology that's

2526
01:29:59,750 --> 01:29:57,280
assuming that we've recovered technology

2527
01:30:01,270 --> 01:29:59,760
and um

2528
01:30:03,990 --> 01:30:01,280
frankly even though there's no good

2529
01:30:06,629 --> 01:30:04,000
reason now for

2530
01:30:09,910 --> 01:30:06,639
not revealing it they've dug themselves

2531
01:30:11,189 --> 01:30:09,920
so deep into a lie for so long

2532
01:30:12,950 --> 01:30:11,199
they don't know how to get out of it

2533
01:30:14,550 --> 01:30:12,960
they're worried about being excoriated

2534
01:30:17,350 --> 01:30:14,560
and vilified in the court of public

2535
01:30:19,189 --> 01:30:17,360
opinion but they should be frankly if if

2536
01:30:21,270 --> 01:30:19,199
they've lied if they've mislead congress

2537
01:30:22,870 --> 01:30:21,280
i mean one of the things that frankly i

2538
01:30:24,149 --> 01:30:22,880
just don't get

2539
01:30:25,590 --> 01:30:24,159
and this is something i really don't

2540
01:30:28,550 --> 01:30:25,600
understand is if you read jacques

2541
01:30:30,709 --> 01:30:28,560
villa's forbidden knowledge volume four

2542
01:30:32,950 --> 01:30:30,719
it has the most extraordinary series of

2543
01:30:35,669 --> 01:30:32,960
exchanges between jacques vallee who's

2544
01:30:38,629 --> 01:30:35,679
one of the godfathers of ufo research

2545
01:30:40,629 --> 01:30:38,639
and a guy called richard dick demato who

2546
01:30:42,709 --> 01:30:40,639
was the staffer on the senate

2547
01:30:44,709 --> 01:30:42,719
intelligence committee in a role very

2548
01:30:46,709 --> 01:30:44,719
similar to the role that was played by

2549
01:30:49,030 --> 01:30:46,719
chris mellon years later

2550
01:30:50,790 --> 01:30:49,040
and dick tomato back in the 1970s was

2551
01:30:53,350 --> 01:30:50,800
talking to jacques valet

2552
01:30:55,030 --> 01:30:53,360
openly in private conversation

2553
01:30:57,510 --> 01:30:55,040
about how he was trying to get to the

2554
01:30:59,990 --> 01:30:57,520
bottom of the government cover-up about

2555
01:31:01,430 --> 01:31:00,000
ufos and i look i've approached dick

2556
01:31:03,030 --> 01:31:01,440
tomato and

2557
01:31:05,030 --> 01:31:03,040
he doesn't want to talk

2558
01:31:06,870 --> 01:31:05,040
and you know he's probably bound by a

2559
01:31:09,030 --> 01:31:06,880
security oath but he was making no

2560
01:31:11,189 --> 01:31:09,040
secret to jacques villa who

2561
01:31:13,830 --> 01:31:11,199
mischievously put this in his diaries

2562
01:31:15,990 --> 01:31:13,840
back in the 1970s that he knew

2563
01:31:17,750 --> 01:31:16,000
that as the person responsible as the

2564
01:31:20,390 --> 01:31:17,760
staff are responsible for probably the

2565
01:31:22,550 --> 01:31:20,400
most important intelligence oversight

2566
01:31:24,470 --> 01:31:22,560
body in the congress

2567
01:31:26,950 --> 01:31:24,480
he couldn't get access to information

2568
01:31:27,910 --> 01:31:26,960
that he knew existed

2569
01:31:30,229 --> 01:31:27,920
and

2570
01:31:33,189 --> 01:31:30,239
this is what worries me what worries me

2571
01:31:35,270 --> 01:31:33,199
is that this may be a crisis of

2572
01:31:37,750 --> 01:31:35,280
accountability

2573
01:31:40,470 --> 01:31:37,760
if the wilson memo for example is a

2574
01:31:42,550 --> 01:31:40,480
truthful and accurate document

2575
01:31:44,790 --> 01:31:42,560
what it means is

2576
01:31:46,709 --> 01:31:44,800
essentially

2577
01:31:48,550 --> 01:31:46,719
technology that is rightfully the

2578
01:31:50,310 --> 01:31:48,560
possession and

2579
01:31:52,629 --> 01:31:50,320
you know the property of the american

2580
01:31:55,189 --> 01:31:52,639
people if not the human race

2581
01:31:58,229 --> 01:31:55,199
is being divested into the private

2582
01:32:00,470 --> 01:31:58,239
ownership of a private aerospace company

2583
01:32:01,430 --> 01:32:00,480
and oversighted only by a very few

2584
01:32:03,350 --> 01:32:01,440
people

2585
01:32:05,270 --> 01:32:03,360
in government

2586
01:32:06,390 --> 01:32:05,280
who are terrified of the secret getting

2587
01:32:08,070 --> 01:32:06,400
out

2588
01:32:10,070 --> 01:32:08,080
and

2589
01:32:11,270 --> 01:32:10,080
their efforts to back engineer this

2590
01:32:13,189 --> 01:32:11,280
technology

2591
01:32:15,750 --> 01:32:13,199
allegedly because of the incredible

2592
01:32:17,430 --> 01:32:15,760
secrecy attached to the whole program

2593
01:32:19,669 --> 01:32:17,440
have been hindered because of their

2594
01:32:22,790 --> 01:32:19,679
inability as scientists to be able to

2595
01:32:25,270 --> 01:32:22,800
share data and discuss what what they're

2596
01:32:26,950 --> 01:32:25,280
looking at with other scientists

2597
01:32:29,350 --> 01:32:26,960
imagine if

2598
01:32:32,550 --> 01:32:29,360
hypothetically the united states is in

2599
01:32:34,629 --> 01:32:32,560
possession of retrieved technology

2600
01:32:37,189 --> 01:32:34,639
imagine hypothetically

2601
01:32:40,950 --> 01:32:37,199
if the united states is sitting on an

2602
01:32:43,830 --> 01:32:40,960
alien spacecraft or multiple spacecraft

2603
01:32:45,030 --> 01:32:43,840
imagine if that was the case

2604
01:32:47,910 --> 01:32:45,040
imagine if

2605
01:32:50,709 --> 01:32:47,920
they've failed in 76 years

2606
01:32:51,470 --> 01:32:50,719
to back engineer arbi to back engineer

2607
01:32:54,229 --> 01:32:51,480
that

2608
01:32:56,709 --> 01:32:54,239
technology um

2609
01:32:58,390 --> 01:32:56,719
don't you think there comes a time when

2610
01:33:00,709 --> 01:32:58,400
they have to

2611
01:33:03,110 --> 01:33:00,719
truthfully engage with the american

2612
01:33:05,030 --> 01:33:03,120
public and say

2613
01:33:06,709 --> 01:33:05,040
we've lied to you

2614
01:33:08,470 --> 01:33:06,719
we're very sorry

2615
01:33:10,229 --> 01:33:08,480
and i this is why i've actually floated

2616
01:33:12,310 --> 01:33:10,239
in previous interviews the idea of a

2617
01:33:14,629 --> 01:33:12,320
truth and reconciliation commission as a

2618
01:33:17,110 --> 01:33:14,639
journalist i covered the south african

2619
01:33:20,310 --> 01:33:17,120
truth and reconciliation commission

2620
01:33:23,110 --> 01:33:20,320
where in quite a beautiful way the evils

2621
01:33:26,149 --> 01:33:23,120
of the apartheid regime under the

2622
01:33:29,110 --> 01:33:26,159
racist government of south africa

2623
01:33:32,470 --> 01:33:29,120
before it became independent under

2624
01:33:36,070 --> 01:33:34,470
they were always covered up and then

2625
01:33:39,030 --> 01:33:36,080
they had a truth and reconciliation

2626
01:33:39,990 --> 01:33:39,040
regime where killers like the killers in

2627
01:33:41,590 --> 01:33:40,000
the

2628
01:33:44,870 --> 01:33:41,600
south african security service who'd

2629
01:33:47,430 --> 01:33:44,880
literally murdered people for the state

2630
01:33:48,870 --> 01:33:47,440
were allowed to truthfully sit in public

2631
01:33:50,790 --> 01:33:48,880
hearing

2632
01:33:52,390 --> 01:33:50,800
and tell their story knowing that they

2633
01:33:54,470 --> 01:33:52,400
were being given full immunity and full

2634
01:33:56,870 --> 01:33:54,480
indemnity and frankly i think that's

2635
01:33:58,790 --> 01:33:56,880
what we should offer to the people who

2636
01:34:01,750 --> 01:33:58,800
are hiding this secret because it's far

2637
01:34:03,350 --> 01:34:01,760
too important to have a purge to go

2638
01:34:05,270 --> 01:34:03,360
jumping on people and criticizing them

2639
01:34:06,950 --> 01:34:05,280
for not revealing it i suspect that

2640
01:34:09,030 --> 01:34:06,960
their motivations for hiding it in the

2641
01:34:11,910 --> 01:34:09,040
very beginning were quite honorable

2642
01:34:13,750 --> 01:34:11,920
we were in the cold war

2643
01:34:14,629 --> 01:34:13,760
and we found a life form to quote the

2644
01:34:16,229 --> 01:34:14,639
general

2645
01:34:18,149 --> 01:34:16,239
i mean i'm referring there to something

2646
01:34:20,229 --> 01:34:18,159
that tom delong gave in an interview

2647
01:34:22,390 --> 01:34:20,239
when he says he was told by a person he

2648
01:34:24,629 --> 01:34:22,400
referred to as the general

2649
01:34:26,709 --> 01:34:24,639
it was the cold war and every day we

2650
01:34:28,470 --> 01:34:26,719
lived in fear that you know the world

2651
01:34:30,149 --> 01:34:28,480
was about to fall apart

2652
01:34:32,070 --> 01:34:30,159
and then we found a life form you know

2653
01:34:34,310 --> 01:34:32,080
there was a different context during the

2654
01:34:36,310 --> 01:34:34,320
cold war that i think informed america's

2655
01:34:38,310 --> 01:34:36,320
national security imperatives i would

2656
01:34:41,189 --> 01:34:38,320
have kept the secret

2657
01:34:43,030 --> 01:34:41,199
but if it is the case if

2658
01:34:45,030 --> 01:34:43,040
it is the case that the united states

2659
01:34:47,109 --> 01:34:45,040
has recovered alien technology and i

2660
01:34:49,030 --> 01:34:47,119
don't know for sure that they have

2661
01:34:50,390 --> 01:34:49,040
i suspect they have

2662
01:34:54,149 --> 01:34:50,400
then

2663
01:34:56,229 --> 01:34:54,159
unless there's a good reason for

2664
01:34:57,350 --> 01:34:56,239
continuing to conceal it and i'd like to

2665
01:35:00,070 --> 01:34:57,360
hear that

2666
01:35:02,709 --> 01:35:00,080
i think we need to provide a means for

2667
01:35:05,270 --> 01:35:02,719
them to be exculpated

2668
01:35:07,030 --> 01:35:05,280
and to be honorably recognized for

2669
01:35:09,030 --> 01:35:07,040
bringing it out into the

2670
01:35:10,790 --> 01:35:09,040
american public's knowledge

2671
01:35:11,750 --> 01:35:10,800
because

2672
01:35:13,750 --> 01:35:11,760
let me just

2673
01:35:17,030 --> 01:35:13,760
be a whimsical person for a moment

2674
01:35:19,910 --> 01:35:17,040
discuss what i love about america

2675
01:35:22,629 --> 01:35:19,920
as a little boy i remember looking up at

2676
01:35:26,470 --> 01:35:22,639
the moon and thinking how incredible it

2677
01:35:28,629 --> 01:35:26,480
was that a country on my planet had put

2678
01:35:30,470 --> 01:35:28,639
men on the moon you know it was just

2679
01:35:33,270 --> 01:35:30,480
unimaginable to me as a little boy and i

2680
01:35:36,310 --> 01:35:33,280
had all my apollo moon mission models

2681
01:35:39,430 --> 01:35:36,320
and i was fascinated with the idea that

2682
01:35:41,270 --> 01:35:39,440
you know a nation had collaborated

2683
01:35:43,830 --> 01:35:41,280
scientifically

2684
01:35:46,470 --> 01:35:43,840
in such a short period of time

2685
01:35:49,270 --> 01:35:46,480
to do incredible things

2686
01:35:51,030 --> 01:35:49,280
you know what a monumental achievement

2687
01:35:53,830 --> 01:35:51,040
and that was an illustration to me of

2688
01:35:55,430 --> 01:35:53,840
what humanity can achieve and i'm really

2689
01:35:56,470 --> 01:35:55,440
struck i was only reading yesterday

2690
01:35:59,270 --> 01:35:56,480
about how

2691
01:36:01,430 --> 01:35:59,280
shortly before his death john f kennedy

2692
01:36:03,270 --> 01:36:01,440
in november the

2693
01:36:07,669 --> 01:36:03,280
1963

2694
01:36:09,750 --> 01:36:08,709
begin

2695
01:36:12,709 --> 01:36:09,760
sharing

2696
01:36:14,870 --> 01:36:12,719
intelligence with the russians

2697
01:36:17,270 --> 01:36:14,880
and to look at a collaborative space

2698
01:36:19,430 --> 01:36:17,280
research program with the russians

2699
01:36:20,790 --> 01:36:19,440
and there was such promise there

2700
01:36:23,030 --> 01:36:20,800
internationally

2701
01:36:25,510 --> 01:36:23,040
about pulling ourselves out of the cold

2702
01:36:27,350 --> 01:36:25,520
war with adventurism

2703
01:36:29,350 --> 01:36:27,360
exploration

2704
01:36:31,270 --> 01:36:29,360
science research

2705
01:36:35,109 --> 01:36:31,280
new ideas

2706
01:36:36,950 --> 01:36:35,119
and if it is the case if it is the case

2707
01:36:41,189 --> 01:36:36,960
that the united states is sitting on

2708
01:36:42,950 --> 01:36:41,199
technology and i suspect it is

2709
01:36:44,229 --> 01:36:42,960
imagine what that technology could do

2710
01:36:46,149 --> 01:36:44,239
for humanity

2711
01:36:48,950 --> 01:36:46,159
and imagine how we're being held back

2712
01:36:51,189 --> 01:36:48,960
because of the

2713
01:36:56,070 --> 01:36:51,199
fear

2714
01:36:58,629 --> 01:36:56,080
in dark rooms

2715
01:37:00,070 --> 01:36:58,639
who are hiding these secrets

2716
01:37:02,629 --> 01:37:00,080
wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if we

2717
01:37:04,470 --> 01:37:02,639
could usher in a new age of propulsion

2718
01:37:06,229 --> 01:37:04,480
systems energy

2719
01:37:08,070 --> 01:37:06,239
advances in technology that the world

2720
01:37:09,590 --> 01:37:08,080
has never seen pull human beings out of

2721
01:37:11,750 --> 01:37:09,600
poverty

2722
01:37:14,070 --> 01:37:11,760
you know be fantastic

2723
01:37:15,669 --> 01:37:14,080
exploration understand our solar system

2724
01:37:17,270 --> 01:37:15,679
understand our universe

2725
01:37:19,030 --> 01:37:17,280
these things could be achieved if there

2726
01:37:21,350 --> 01:37:19,040
really is

2727
01:37:23,270 --> 01:37:21,360
faster than light travel or some kind of

2728
01:37:24,310 --> 01:37:23,280
anti-gravity technology or propulsion

2729
01:37:25,430 --> 01:37:24,320
system

2730
01:37:27,030 --> 01:37:25,440
and

2731
01:37:29,109 --> 01:37:27,040
the interesting thing

2732
01:37:30,790 --> 01:37:29,119
is

2733
01:37:31,910 --> 01:37:30,800
someone

2734
01:37:33,510 --> 01:37:31,920
something

2735
01:37:35,109 --> 01:37:33,520
out there

2736
01:37:36,310 --> 01:37:35,119
is flying

2737
01:37:39,109 --> 01:37:36,320
craft

2738
01:37:41,270 --> 01:37:39,119
that appear to have these technologies

2739
01:37:42,950 --> 01:37:41,280
and the world just goes on you know the

2740
01:37:44,310 --> 01:37:42,960
pentagon makes these admissions it

2741
01:37:46,790 --> 01:37:44,320
actually admits that it cannot

2742
01:37:50,310 --> 01:37:46,800
proximately explain this phenomenon

2743
01:37:51,990 --> 01:37:50,320
which is doing maneuvers and speeds far

2744
01:37:54,390 --> 01:37:52,000
beyond our technology

2745
01:37:56,310 --> 01:37:54,400
instantaneous velocity hypersonic

2746
01:37:58,470 --> 01:37:56,320
maneuvers

2747
01:37:59,910 --> 01:37:58,480
and we just get on with our lives and

2748
01:38:02,149 --> 01:37:59,920
politely ignore it like it's not

2749
01:38:04,229 --> 01:38:02,159
happening or worse still we give

2750
01:38:06,149 --> 01:38:04,239
currency to some stupid debunker who

2751
01:38:08,149 --> 01:38:06,159
comes up with some lame excuse that

2752
01:38:10,070 --> 01:38:08,159
frankly doesn't make sense

2753
01:38:13,830 --> 01:38:10,080
it's time for people to wake up to

2754
01:38:18,790 --> 01:38:15,750
the united states

2755
01:38:21,510 --> 01:38:18,800
i know for sure is sitting on secrets

2756
01:38:24,070 --> 01:38:21,520
that it is not yet revealing

2757
01:38:26,310 --> 01:38:24,080
and i don't know why it's not doing that

2758
01:38:29,109 --> 01:38:26,320
but i have in the course of my research

2759
01:38:31,830 --> 01:38:29,119
become privy to knowledge that

2760
01:38:34,629 --> 01:38:31,840
makes me realize that

2761
01:38:37,189 --> 01:38:34,639
they are concealing stuff

2762
01:38:38,790 --> 01:38:37,199
now if they're concealing technology

2763
01:38:41,270 --> 01:38:38,800
i think the public has a right to know

2764
01:38:42,950 --> 01:38:41,280
about it unless there's some solid

2765
01:38:45,189 --> 01:38:42,960
national security reason that can be

2766
01:38:47,590 --> 01:38:45,199
provided that explains why

2767
01:38:50,229 --> 01:38:47,600
so my only point is we need to provide a

2768
01:38:52,229 --> 01:38:50,239
means a system to facilitate them

2769
01:38:54,390 --> 01:38:52,239
feeling okay about doing that we need to

2770
01:38:56,830 --> 01:38:54,400
provide people with essentially an

2771
01:38:59,350 --> 01:38:56,840
indemnity against prosecution if they

2772
01:39:00,709 --> 01:38:59,360
speak outside the constraints of their

2773
01:39:03,030 --> 01:39:00,719
security oath

2774
01:39:04,229 --> 01:39:03,040
if they reveal crimes if crimes have

2775
01:39:06,310 --> 01:39:04,239
been committed

2776
01:39:07,750 --> 01:39:06,320
there has to be a full and open

2777
01:39:09,750 --> 01:39:07,760
accounting

2778
01:39:11,189 --> 01:39:09,760
and frankly you're not going to get that

2779
01:39:12,950 --> 01:39:11,199
in the congress

2780
01:39:14,310 --> 01:39:12,960
at the moment it's not going to happen i

2781
01:39:15,910 --> 01:39:14,320
don't care what

2782
01:39:16,790 --> 01:39:15,920
some of the more optimistic predictors

2783
01:39:18,149 --> 01:39:16,800
say

2784
01:39:20,310 --> 01:39:18,159
i don't think there is a mood in the

2785
01:39:22,550 --> 01:39:20,320
congress for any further disclosure i

2786
01:39:24,310 --> 01:39:22,560
think the uap task force will be created

2787
01:39:26,390 --> 01:39:24,320
into a permanent office

2788
01:39:28,870 --> 01:39:26,400
in all likelihood but it will be

2789
01:39:31,109 --> 01:39:28,880
woefully underfunded and like project

2790
01:39:32,709 --> 01:39:31,119
bluebook it'll eventually be dribbled

2791
01:39:35,109 --> 01:39:32,719
out of existence

2792
01:39:36,470 --> 01:39:35,119
and frankly the only way any impetus is

2793
01:39:39,030 --> 01:39:36,480
going to be developed on this is if the

2794
01:39:41,189 --> 01:39:39,040
public wakes up and realizes the awesome

2795
01:39:44,310 --> 01:39:41,199
significance of what the pentagon has

2796
01:39:48,390 --> 01:39:46,149
okay this question comes from quantum

2797
01:39:52,229 --> 01:39:48,400
cryogenics do you agree with

2798
01:39:57,990 --> 01:39:52,239
eric davis that ufo experiences always

2799
01:40:02,550 --> 01:39:59,669
i don't know i don't know enough about

2800
01:40:05,830 --> 01:40:02,560
it i i genuinely don't know enough about

2801
01:40:09,030 --> 01:40:05,840
um ufo experiences i have huge respect

2802
01:40:10,709 --> 01:40:09,040
for dr eric davis uh but um

2803
01:40:14,149 --> 01:40:10,719
i haven't witnessed what he's witnessed

2804
01:40:17,990 --> 01:40:15,750
all right then this one comes from dan

2805
01:40:21,510 --> 01:40:18,000
zetterstrom of the ufo podcast which i

2806
01:40:24,229 --> 01:40:21,520
saw you on i listened to those two parts

2807
01:40:25,910 --> 01:40:24,239
this is he says slide nine and i'll also

2808
01:40:27,990 --> 01:40:25,920
link the podcast in the description

2809
01:40:30,070 --> 01:40:28,000
slide nine specifies instantaneous

2810
01:40:31,590 --> 01:40:30,080
sensor disassembly

2811
01:40:33,669 --> 01:40:31,600
we've also seen human and cattle

2812
01:40:35,830 --> 01:40:33,679
referred to as biosensors when it comes

2813
01:40:38,470 --> 01:40:35,840
to the phenomenon the prospect for

2814
01:40:42,790 --> 01:40:38,480
disassembly of these things is startling

2815
01:40:45,430 --> 01:40:44,149
i think it does

2816
01:40:47,990 --> 01:40:45,440
what does he mean by cognitive

2817
01:40:50,070 --> 01:40:48,000
manipulation so explain this question to

2818
01:40:51,030 --> 01:40:50,080
me and then give that okay

2819
01:40:53,350 --> 01:40:51,040
okay

2820
01:40:54,149 --> 01:40:53,360
slide nine just to give you some context

2821
01:40:57,109 --> 01:40:54,159
uh

2822
01:40:58,629 --> 01:40:57,119
slide nine was part of a group of slides

2823
01:40:59,830 --> 01:40:58,639
from a powerpoint

2824
01:41:01,990 --> 01:40:59,840
display

2825
01:41:04,229 --> 01:41:02,000
that was certainly prepared and maybe

2826
01:41:06,709 --> 01:41:04,239
used in a briefing for the under

2827
01:41:09,109 --> 01:41:06,719
secretary of the department of defense

2828
01:41:11,270 --> 01:41:09,119
from people in the office of the under

2829
01:41:14,550 --> 01:41:11,280
secretary of defense intelligence

2830
01:41:15,590 --> 01:41:14,560
probably parts of the uap task force or

2831
01:41:16,870 --> 01:41:15,600
atip

2832
01:41:19,510 --> 01:41:16,880
the advanced aerospace threat

2833
01:41:22,629 --> 01:41:19,520
three-notation program and probably when

2834
01:41:24,229 --> 01:41:22,639
lua lozondo was in charge there

2835
01:41:26,629 --> 01:41:24,239
i don't know for sure i haven't asked

2836
01:41:29,750 --> 01:41:26,639
lou directly about it i should have done

2837
01:41:33,109 --> 01:41:29,760
but essentially slide nine is the ninth

2838
01:41:35,030 --> 01:41:33,119
slide in those power points that we used

2839
01:41:37,030 --> 01:41:35,040
for a briefing and

2840
01:41:39,430 --> 01:41:37,040
frankly if these were used in a briefing

2841
01:41:41,430 --> 01:41:39,440
they are absolutely astonishing because

2842
01:41:43,189 --> 01:41:41,440
the provenance of the document is really

2843
01:41:44,550 --> 01:41:43,199
not in doubt i've more than satisfied

2844
01:41:47,109 --> 01:41:44,560
myself as to the prominence of the

2845
01:41:50,790 --> 01:41:47,119
document

2846
01:41:52,790 --> 01:41:50,800
and slide 9 shows that the under

2847
01:41:56,310 --> 01:41:52,800
secretary for the department of defense

2848
01:41:58,030 --> 01:41:56,320
was being advised that the phenomenon is

2849
01:42:00,709 --> 01:41:58,040
capable of

2850
01:42:02,550 --> 01:42:00,719
psychotronic weaponry

2851
01:42:04,709 --> 01:42:02,560
and when you look up psychotronic which

2852
01:42:06,550 --> 01:42:04,719
i did i immediately googled it it's

2853
01:42:08,390 --> 01:42:06,560
essentially describing what the slide

2854
01:42:11,030 --> 01:42:08,400
goes on to describe which is the

2855
01:42:12,790 --> 01:42:11,040
capacity to manipulate human perception

2856
01:42:15,669 --> 01:42:12,800
and consciousness

2857
01:42:18,550 --> 01:42:15,679
and as dan has rightly pointed out

2858
01:42:20,790 --> 01:42:18,560
it also involves the capacity to

2859
01:42:23,109 --> 01:42:20,800
remotely

2860
01:42:25,030 --> 01:42:23,119
manipulate an instantaneous sense or

2861
01:42:28,470 --> 01:42:25,040
disassembly and what that's a reference

2862
01:42:29,990 --> 01:42:28,480
to is the meddling that has been going

2863
01:42:31,590 --> 01:42:30,000
on and is

2864
01:42:33,669 --> 01:42:31,600
still going on

2865
01:42:34,550 --> 01:42:33,679
with nuclear weapons

2866
01:42:38,550 --> 01:42:34,560
uh

2867
01:42:40,229 --> 01:42:38,560
about the stuff that i know that's

2868
01:42:42,070 --> 01:42:40,239
current because some of it is still

2869
01:42:44,870 --> 01:42:42,080
quite national security sensitive but

2870
01:42:46,550 --> 01:42:44,880
there is a genuine concern

2871
01:42:49,990 --> 01:42:46,560
inside the us

2872
01:42:51,510 --> 01:42:50,000
and also interestingly i noted in france

2873
01:42:53,030 --> 01:42:51,520
india

2874
01:42:54,470 --> 01:42:53,040
and russia

2875
01:42:58,229 --> 01:42:54,480
those are the countries that i've spoken

2876
01:43:03,270 --> 01:43:00,390
somebody is screwing with their nuclear

2877
01:43:07,109 --> 01:43:05,270
they're having instances where weapons

2878
01:43:08,870 --> 01:43:07,119
are going down and they just won't

2879
01:43:11,350 --> 01:43:08,880
function and they can't find anything

2880
01:43:14,149 --> 01:43:11,360
wrong with things

2881
01:43:16,229 --> 01:43:14,159
systems that are supposedly secure

2882
01:43:18,709 --> 01:43:16,239
it's almost as if whatever it is is

2883
01:43:20,950 --> 01:43:18,719
demonstrating to them how

2884
01:43:22,790 --> 01:43:20,960
insecure their systems are because if

2885
01:43:25,350 --> 01:43:22,800
you think about it

2886
01:43:27,990 --> 01:43:25,360
if something and this is irrefutable

2887
01:43:29,750 --> 01:43:28,000
something is demonstrating a capacity to

2888
01:43:31,189 --> 01:43:29,760
middle with the most dangerous weapons

2889
01:43:32,950 --> 01:43:31,199
on the planet

2890
01:43:35,270 --> 01:43:32,960
and people don't realize that the

2891
01:43:36,629 --> 01:43:35,280
bulletin of atomic scientists that has

2892
01:43:40,229 --> 01:43:36,639
this clock

2893
01:43:41,430 --> 01:43:40,239
showing the hands towards midnight

2894
01:43:43,510 --> 01:43:41,440
that hand

2895
01:43:45,350 --> 01:43:43,520
is closer to midnight

2896
01:43:46,629 --> 01:43:45,360
than at many other times in our history

2897
01:43:48,390 --> 01:43:46,639
right now

2898
01:43:51,990 --> 01:43:48,400
you know we may think that the threat of

2899
01:43:53,990 --> 01:43:52,000
nuclear war has diminished but there is

2900
01:43:55,830 --> 01:43:54,000
from all of the people that i'm talking

2901
01:43:58,229 --> 01:43:55,840
to at the moment

2902
01:44:00,390 --> 01:43:58,239
an ever-present fear that we are on the

2903
01:44:02,070 --> 01:44:00,400
brink of a confrontation with china

2904
01:44:05,669 --> 01:44:02,080
let's say it for what it is people are

2905
01:44:07,590 --> 01:44:05,679
talking about war with china it's scary

2906
01:44:10,229 --> 01:44:07,600
you know i'm really worried about it i'm

2907
01:44:12,550 --> 01:44:10,239
preoccupied with it frankly

2908
01:44:14,709 --> 01:44:12,560
australia has just recently bought or

2909
01:44:17,510 --> 01:44:14,719
agreed to buy nuclear submarines from

2910
01:44:19,830 --> 01:44:17,520
the brits and the americans

2911
01:44:22,229 --> 01:44:19,840
in an amazing new defense relationship

2912
01:44:24,229 --> 01:44:22,239
called walkers because we're so paranoid

2913
01:44:25,990 --> 01:44:24,239
about china

2914
01:44:27,510 --> 01:44:26,000
and it's like we're sleep walking into a

2915
01:44:29,990 --> 01:44:27,520
war and so

2916
01:44:33,189 --> 01:44:30,000
in that context when you think about how

2917
01:44:35,910 --> 01:44:33,199
close that clock is to midnight

2918
01:44:38,629 --> 01:44:35,920
you also need to be aware that something

2919
01:44:41,750 --> 01:44:38,639
is continuing to middle with our nuclear

2920
01:44:43,750 --> 01:44:41,760
weapons and these sightings are ongoing

2921
01:44:46,629 --> 01:44:43,760
these meddlings are ongoing there are

2922
01:44:50,070 --> 01:44:48,790
meddlings or if you like one person i

2923
01:44:51,669 --> 01:44:50,080
spoke to said they were like

2924
01:44:54,149 --> 01:44:51,679
demonstrations something is

2925
01:44:56,790 --> 01:44:54,159
demonstrating a capacity to shut down

2926
01:44:58,870 --> 01:44:56,800
nuclear weapons or as has reportedly

2927
01:45:00,310 --> 01:44:58,880
happened in one case in the united the

2928
01:45:02,709 --> 01:45:00,320
ussr

2929
01:45:04,870 --> 01:45:02,719
a capacity to wind up nuclear weapons to

2930
01:45:06,149 --> 01:45:04,880
turn them there's only one case

2931
01:45:08,470 --> 01:45:06,159
ever in the whole world that you know

2932
01:45:11,350 --> 01:45:08,480
about the that's the one case i know

2933
01:45:13,350 --> 01:45:11,360
about directly uh where i've spoken to

2934
01:45:15,350 --> 01:45:13,360
russians who purport to have a direct

2935
01:45:16,790 --> 01:45:15,360
knowledge of it yes

2936
01:45:19,350 --> 01:45:16,800
but i wouldn't be surprised at all if

2937
01:45:21,990 --> 01:45:19,360
there were others

2938
01:45:25,189 --> 01:45:22,000
okay administrative fudge eight asks

2939
01:45:27,270 --> 01:45:25,199
does he have information on hayim ashed

2940
01:45:28,950 --> 01:45:27,280
former head of israeli defense ministry

2941
01:45:31,510 --> 01:45:28,960
i'm certain he briefly mentioned it when

2942
01:45:33,830 --> 01:45:31,520
talking in project unity in an interview

2943
01:45:34,709 --> 01:45:33,840
but i might be wrong that's what he said

2944
01:45:35,910 --> 01:45:34,719
yeah

2945
01:45:38,950 --> 01:45:35,920
when um

2946
01:45:40,390 --> 01:45:38,960
when i was writing my book uh

2947
01:45:41,910 --> 01:45:40,400
a lot of people would remember there was

2948
01:45:43,350 --> 01:45:41,920
this guy who was a former head of the

2949
01:45:44,790 --> 01:45:43,360
israeli

2950
01:45:46,390 --> 01:45:44,800
space program i don't even know the

2951
01:45:47,750 --> 01:45:46,400
israelis had a space program but he was

2952
01:45:48,709 --> 01:45:47,760
a former head of the israeli space

2953
01:45:50,790 --> 01:45:48,719
program

2954
01:45:53,430 --> 01:45:50,800
and he talked openly about his knowledge

2955
01:45:54,709 --> 01:45:53,440
of the americans concealing

2956
01:45:57,510 --> 01:45:54,719
evidence of

2957
01:46:01,030 --> 01:45:57,520
alien visitations to this planet

2958
01:46:04,070 --> 01:46:01,040
and all i know is i had friends of mine

2959
01:46:06,390 --> 01:46:04,080
who are hebrew speakers in israel reach

2960
01:46:07,990 --> 01:46:06,400
out to him on multiple occasions to see

2961
01:46:09,669 --> 01:46:08,000
if he was prepared to speak to me and he

2962
01:46:10,629 --> 01:46:09,679
didn't want to engage

2963
01:46:13,189 --> 01:46:10,639
so

2964
01:46:14,870 --> 01:46:13,199
whatever it was that he said

2965
01:46:17,030 --> 01:46:14,880
and whatever the reasons for his

2966
01:46:20,550 --> 01:46:17,040
unwillingness to engage

2967
01:46:25,590 --> 01:46:20,560
as often happens um he shut up pretty

2968
01:46:29,109 --> 01:46:27,510
steve cambion asks what have you

2969
01:46:31,510 --> 01:46:29,119
uncovered about the us government's

2970
01:46:33,510 --> 01:46:31,520
injection of agents and infiltration

2971
01:46:34,870 --> 01:46:33,520
into the ufo community for years and

2972
01:46:37,590 --> 01:46:34,880
what do you think their purpose is for

2973
01:46:41,430 --> 01:46:39,750
i'm sure that the

2974
01:46:43,669 --> 01:46:41,440
government and intelligence services

2975
01:46:45,750 --> 01:46:43,679
monitors ufo groups and look frankly i

2976
01:46:48,310 --> 01:46:45,760
can see some logic in that

2977
01:46:50,070 --> 01:46:48,320
the way it was explained to me

2978
01:46:52,470 --> 01:46:50,080
when you think about it during the cold

2979
01:46:54,870 --> 01:46:52,480
war in particular

2980
01:46:55,830 --> 01:46:54,880
if you were russia and you wanted to

2981
01:46:58,709 --> 01:46:55,840
have

2982
01:47:00,870 --> 01:46:58,719
an intelligence network that gave you

2983
01:47:02,629 --> 01:47:00,880
insights into what's going on around

2984
01:47:03,910 --> 01:47:02,639
some of the most sensitive bases in

2985
01:47:06,709 --> 01:47:03,920
america

2986
01:47:10,790 --> 01:47:08,629
infiltrating the

2987
01:47:14,229 --> 01:47:10,800
ufo groups that sit off the end of area

2988
01:47:15,910 --> 01:47:14,239
51 or the nevada test range or the

2989
01:47:18,229 --> 01:47:15,920
you know different test sites in the

2990
01:47:19,990 --> 01:47:18,239
sensitive parts of nevada and new mexico

2991
01:47:21,669 --> 01:47:20,000
it's a great way of finding out what's

2992
01:47:25,030 --> 01:47:21,679
going on and the evidence is irrefutable

2993
01:47:29,430 --> 01:47:27,189
and we've had similar things here in

2994
01:47:32,310 --> 01:47:29,440
australia i mean i've been briefed by

2995
01:47:34,629 --> 01:47:32,320
our intelligence services about

2996
01:47:37,270 --> 01:47:34,639
russians in caravans on holiday near

2997
01:47:39,109 --> 01:47:37,280
pine gap in australia or chinese people

2998
01:47:41,030 --> 01:47:39,119
installing weird equipment in the desert

2999
01:47:43,030 --> 01:47:41,040
somewhere near pine gap

3000
01:47:45,350 --> 01:47:43,040
and the thing that frustrates people

3001
01:47:46,950 --> 01:47:45,360
about pine gap is

3002
01:47:49,270 --> 01:47:46,960
all the

3003
01:47:52,870 --> 01:47:49,280
standard techniques for intercepting

3004
01:47:55,430 --> 01:47:52,880
data 30 or 40 years ago involved

3005
01:47:58,149 --> 01:47:55,440
um placing a

3006
01:48:00,709 --> 01:47:58,159
either a satellite or a receiver

3007
01:48:02,550 --> 01:48:00,719
uh into the signal from winds that was

3008
01:48:04,390 --> 01:48:02,560
coming from the satellite

3009
01:48:06,149 --> 01:48:04,400
and so you know we

3010
01:48:08,310 --> 01:48:06,159
quite often we'd stick

3011
01:48:10,790 --> 01:48:08,320
from submarines we'd stick receivers

3012
01:48:13,350 --> 01:48:10,800
into the line of sight of microwave

3013
01:48:14,950 --> 01:48:13,360
receivers for uh mobile phone telephony

3014
01:48:16,070 --> 01:48:14,960
in korea or

3015
01:48:18,229 --> 01:48:16,080
um

3016
01:48:20,070 --> 01:48:18,239
russia or china and that that works

3017
01:48:21,750 --> 01:48:20,080
still largely classified so i won't go

3018
01:48:23,750 --> 01:48:21,760
into a lot about it but

3019
01:48:25,270 --> 01:48:23,760
um

3020
01:48:27,270 --> 01:48:25,280
one of the things that

3021
01:48:29,109 --> 01:48:27,280
uh one of the reasons why pine gap was

3022
01:48:30,870 --> 01:48:29,119
created where it is slap bang in the

3023
01:48:33,350 --> 01:48:30,880
middle of australia is literally there

3024
01:48:35,510 --> 01:48:33,360
are thousands of kilometers of outback

3025
01:48:38,629 --> 01:48:35,520
desert in every direction and so it's

3026
01:48:40,470 --> 01:48:38,639
very hard for a a communist country or a

3027
01:48:42,310 --> 01:48:40,480
country that wants to spy on australia

3028
01:48:45,270 --> 01:48:42,320
to come and

3029
01:48:47,189 --> 01:48:45,280
stick a caravan or a transmitter or a

3030
01:48:49,510 --> 01:48:47,199
receiver under the uh

3031
01:48:51,350 --> 01:48:49,520
the down point of the satellites uh to

3032
01:48:52,629 --> 01:48:51,360
the receiving dishes in pine gap without

3033
01:48:54,390 --> 01:48:52,639
being caught

3034
01:48:56,229 --> 01:48:54,400
and there's an incredibly intensive

3035
01:48:58,310 --> 01:48:56,239
investigation effort by intelligence

3036
01:49:03,510 --> 01:48:58,320
services and defense security to make

3037
01:49:05,189 --> 01:49:03,520
sure that people don't uh do that and uh

3038
01:49:07,270 --> 01:49:05,199
so yeah i mean i hope that answers your

3039
01:49:08,390 --> 01:49:07,280
question anyway i've lost track of my

3040
01:49:10,629 --> 01:49:08,400
answer

3041
01:49:12,629 --> 01:49:10,639
sure sure and just so you know that

3042
01:49:14,070 --> 01:49:12,639
question came from steve cambion he runs

3043
01:49:16,149 --> 01:49:14,080
truth seekers i'll link that in the

3044
01:49:18,390 --> 01:49:16,159
description okay so this next question

3045
01:49:20,390 --> 01:49:18,400
is from not scrotus

3046
01:49:21,189 --> 01:49:20,400
i would love him to speculate on how

3047
01:49:24,149 --> 01:49:21,199
much

3048
01:49:26,790 --> 01:49:24,159
he thinks luis elisondo knows and what

3049
01:49:29,030 --> 01:49:26,800
he thinks luis alessando may say if not

3050
01:49:31,990 --> 01:49:29,040
for the nda and the classifications

3051
01:49:33,910 --> 01:49:32,000
issues classified issues in other words

3052
01:49:36,709 --> 01:49:33,920
how deep does ross think the rabbit hole

3053
01:49:38,149 --> 01:49:36,719
goes so the lewis eyes okay how much do

3054
01:49:40,950 --> 01:49:38,159
you think he knows

3055
01:49:43,910 --> 01:49:40,960
i i know that louis lozando knows a

3056
01:49:46,310 --> 01:49:43,920
great deal and that is because as part

3057
01:49:47,910 --> 01:49:46,320
of my background research into elizondo

3058
01:49:50,950 --> 01:49:47,920
before i approached him

3059
01:49:52,149 --> 01:49:50,960
i spoke to people in our special forces

3060
01:49:54,310 --> 01:49:52,159
who knew him from his

3061
01:49:56,390 --> 01:49:54,320
counterintelligence work in kandahar

3062
01:49:57,669 --> 01:49:56,400
with the americans during the battle of

3063
01:50:00,390 --> 01:49:57,679
tirankat

3064
01:50:02,709 --> 01:50:00,400
uh shortly after the allies invaded

3065
01:50:03,910 --> 01:50:02,719
afghanistan and tried to interdict

3066
01:50:06,310 --> 01:50:03,920
al-qaeda

3067
01:50:10,149 --> 01:50:06,320
louis lozando has been at the spear

3068
01:50:15,589 --> 01:50:12,790
efforts to bring to heal the people

3069
01:50:17,510 --> 01:50:15,599
responsible for 9 11 for much of the

3070
01:50:18,709 --> 01:50:17,520
last 20 years i mean he's a cold war

3071
01:50:20,070 --> 01:50:18,719
warrior

3072
01:50:22,830 --> 01:50:20,080
and uh

3073
01:50:24,470 --> 01:50:22,840
what blew me away when i finally

3074
01:50:27,990 --> 01:50:24,480
um

3075
01:50:30,149 --> 01:50:28,000
checked out his bonafides was the

3076
01:50:32,470 --> 01:50:30,159
levels at which he'd operated when he

3077
01:50:35,510 --> 01:50:32,480
was based in the office of the under

3078
01:50:37,189 --> 01:50:35,520
secretary of defense intelligence

3079
01:50:40,629 --> 01:50:37,199
[Music]

3080
01:50:41,990 --> 01:50:40,639
before he was deployed to atip

3081
01:50:43,669 --> 01:50:42,000
uh

3082
01:50:47,030 --> 01:50:43,679
i understand and i didn't get this from

3083
01:50:52,070 --> 01:50:47,040
lou but i understand that he was

3084
01:50:55,669 --> 01:50:52,080
a liaison for defense intelligence with

3085
01:50:57,669 --> 01:50:55,679
the special access program oversight

3086
01:50:59,510 --> 01:50:57,679
committee and members of the senior

3087
01:51:01,109 --> 01:50:59,520
review group which

3088
01:51:02,669 --> 01:51:01,119
essentially if you understand anything

3089
01:51:04,470 --> 01:51:02,679
about how

3090
01:51:06,390 --> 01:51:04,480
compartmentalized intelligence in

3091
01:51:08,149 --> 01:51:06,400
america works

3092
01:51:10,310 --> 01:51:08,159
the whole country

3093
01:51:13,030 --> 01:51:10,320
military and intelligence services run

3094
01:51:13,830 --> 01:51:13,040
on a need to know basis

3095
01:51:16,790 --> 01:51:13,840
and

3096
01:51:18,830 --> 01:51:16,800
only a very small number of people need

3097
01:51:21,350 --> 01:51:18,840
to know the most sensitive

3098
01:51:22,709 --> 01:51:21,360
secrets but let me tell you somebody

3099
01:51:24,310 --> 01:51:22,719
who's operating at the level of the

3100
01:51:26,790 --> 01:51:24,320
senior review group and the special

3101
01:51:29,750 --> 01:51:26,800
access program oversight committee

3102
01:51:31,350 --> 01:51:29,760
knows a lot of the very very protected

3103
01:51:33,430 --> 01:51:31,360
secrets and that's about as far as i'm

3104
01:51:34,870 --> 01:51:33,440
prepared to go

3105
01:51:36,790 --> 01:51:34,880
did you see the interview that i had

3106
01:51:39,750 --> 01:51:36,800
with luke where he mentioned somber this

3107
01:51:41,510 --> 01:51:39,760
word somber okay what do you think he

3108
01:51:43,350 --> 01:51:41,520
not meant by the word but meant by the

3109
01:51:47,030 --> 01:51:43,360
implications

3110
01:51:52,310 --> 01:51:50,550
i i wish i could tell you what i

3111
01:51:54,629 --> 01:51:52,320
i'm being told right now but i don't

3112
01:51:56,550 --> 01:51:54,639
think it's responsible for me to talk

3113
01:51:57,910 --> 01:51:56,560
about it until i've been able to verify

3114
01:51:59,510 --> 01:51:57,920
it more because i don't want to panic

3115
01:52:01,030 --> 01:51:59,520
people or

3116
01:52:03,030 --> 01:52:01,040
be irresponsible

3117
01:52:04,470 --> 01:52:03,040
i'm already copying a swipe from

3118
01:52:07,030 --> 01:52:04,480
different people actually eric davis had

3119
01:52:08,630 --> 01:52:07,040
a go at me the other day because i um

3120
01:52:10,629 --> 01:52:08,640
i apparently talked about

3121
01:52:12,629 --> 01:52:10,639
[Music]

3122
01:52:14,629 --> 01:52:12,639
people who told me that the united

3123
01:52:16,629 --> 01:52:14,639
states may be actively engaged in

3124
01:52:18,310 --> 01:52:16,639
attempting to bring down objects by

3125
01:52:20,550 --> 01:52:18,320
using the frequencies that they know

3126
01:52:22,550 --> 01:52:20,560
these objects can be tracked at

3127
01:52:23,910 --> 01:52:22,560
and uh he said i was clueless on that

3128
01:52:25,270 --> 01:52:23,920
point and

3129
01:52:26,550 --> 01:52:25,280
i don't want to get a ding dong with

3130
01:52:29,189 --> 01:52:26,560
eric davis because i actually like the

3131
01:52:31,109 --> 01:52:29,199
guy and respect him enormously but

3132
01:52:32,709 --> 01:52:31,119
all i was doing was reporting what i've

3133
01:52:36,709 --> 01:52:32,719
been told

3134
01:52:39,109 --> 01:52:36,719
in another area certain things about the

3135
01:52:40,550 --> 01:52:39,119
phenomenon that are quite disturbing

3136
01:52:43,510 --> 01:52:40,560
i mean there are a lot of people

3137
01:52:45,750 --> 01:52:43,520
privately claiming too many

3138
01:52:48,149 --> 01:52:45,760
things about the implications of the

3139
01:52:50,550 --> 01:52:48,159
phenomenon that that go beyond far

3140
01:52:51,510 --> 01:52:50,560
beyond the whole notion of just i mean i

3141
01:52:52,870 --> 01:52:51,520
wish it was as simple as

3142
01:52:54,950 --> 01:52:52,880
extraterrestrials getting in their

3143
01:52:57,669 --> 01:52:54,960
little spaceships and flying from

3144
01:53:00,149 --> 01:52:57,679
zeta reticuli and coming to this planet

3145
01:53:01,990 --> 01:53:00,159
that's the easy explanation

3146
01:53:10,070 --> 01:53:02,000
the

3147
01:53:12,070 --> 01:53:10,080
i've been exploring in recent months is

3148
01:53:13,990 --> 01:53:12,080
more complex and i've already spoken

3149
01:53:17,350 --> 01:53:14,000
about this to some extent so i will say

3150
01:53:19,270 --> 01:53:17,360
it involves the notion of

3151
01:53:20,310 --> 01:53:19,280
future human

3152
01:53:23,669 --> 01:53:20,320
time

3153
01:53:26,470 --> 01:53:23,679
and look it's only hypothetical i'm not

3154
01:53:29,430 --> 01:53:26,480
i'm not saying it's real

3155
01:53:33,750 --> 01:53:29,440
but if what i'm being told about that is

3156
01:53:35,990 --> 01:53:33,760
true then yeah i would be somber too

3157
01:53:38,390 --> 01:53:36,000
why is that somber why is the fact or

3158
01:53:41,510 --> 01:53:38,400
the potential that it might be humans in

3159
01:53:42,870 --> 01:53:41,520
the future because of what it

3160
01:53:45,510 --> 01:53:42,880
well i think i wouldn't be giving too

3161
01:53:47,270 --> 01:53:45,520
much away if i said that

3162
01:53:50,229 --> 01:53:47,280
you think about it

3163
01:53:52,550 --> 01:53:50,239
why since 1947

3164
01:53:54,709 --> 01:53:52,560
has there been a phenomenon taking an

3165
01:53:57,030 --> 01:53:54,719
interest in the human race particularly

3166
01:53:59,750 --> 01:53:57,040
in nuclear weapons

3167
01:54:01,830 --> 01:53:59,760
why is something or someone

3168
01:54:03,990 --> 01:54:01,840
apparently trying to send us a message

3169
01:54:06,470 --> 01:54:04,000
about nuclear weapons

3170
01:54:09,910 --> 01:54:06,480
why is it that nuclear weapons are being

3171
01:54:15,910 --> 01:54:12,790
what slide 9 refers to as

3172
01:54:18,470 --> 01:54:15,920
remote sensor disassembly

3173
01:54:21,030 --> 01:54:18,480
what's it trying to say

3174
01:54:22,709 --> 01:54:21,040
what's coming

3175
01:54:24,390 --> 01:54:22,719
imagine if and i'm only speaking

3176
01:54:25,669 --> 01:54:24,400
hypothetically here

3177
01:54:27,990 --> 01:54:25,679
imagine if

3178
01:54:29,750 --> 01:54:28,000
future humans knew that if we continue

3179
01:54:31,750 --> 01:54:29,760
on the path we're going there's going to

3180
01:54:33,350 --> 01:54:31,760
be a nuclear war or a conflagration at

3181
01:54:36,709 --> 01:54:33,360
some time

3182
01:54:40,790 --> 01:54:36,719
wouldn't you want to head that off

3183
01:54:45,189 --> 01:54:42,950
and

3184
01:54:47,030 --> 01:54:45,199
imagine if you were somebody in the us

3185
01:54:49,990 --> 01:54:47,040
defense and intelligence establishment

3186
01:54:53,750 --> 01:54:50,000
that was aware of that quite insane

3187
01:54:55,510 --> 01:54:53,760
sounding idea that this might be a

3188
01:54:57,990 --> 01:54:55,520
time thing

3189
01:54:59,669 --> 01:54:58,000
a future war thing

3190
01:55:02,229 --> 01:54:59,679
and imagine if you're worried that

3191
01:55:03,189 --> 01:55:02,239
anything you do

3192
01:55:05,270 --> 01:55:03,199
might

3193
01:55:08,310 --> 01:55:05,280
jeopardize that time stream

3194
01:55:09,270 --> 01:55:08,320
ah i see that's interesting

3195
01:55:10,709 --> 01:55:09,280
that's

3196
01:55:12,790 --> 01:55:10,719
where i'm

3197
01:55:15,189 --> 01:55:12,800
working at the moment and i don't know

3198
01:55:17,430 --> 01:55:15,199
if i'll ever get an answer and i'm and i

3199
01:55:19,830 --> 01:55:17,440
hasten to add before anybody goes off

3200
01:55:22,310 --> 01:55:19,840
and says cultart says blah i'm not

3201
01:55:23,990 --> 01:55:22,320
saying this for sure i'm just exploring

3202
01:55:25,430 --> 01:55:24,000
this as a hypothetical possibility

3203
01:55:27,510 --> 01:55:25,440
you're so amazing

3204
01:55:29,270 --> 01:55:27,520
i'm surmising and and that's what we

3205
01:55:31,189 --> 01:55:29,280
should do you know we should explore

3206
01:55:32,950 --> 01:55:31,199
this but a number of people have put to

3207
01:55:34,390 --> 01:55:32,960
me and uh

3208
01:55:36,550 --> 01:55:34,400
you know they've suggested to me that

3209
01:55:38,550 --> 01:55:36,560
this might be future human

3210
01:55:40,390 --> 01:55:38,560
and uh there's a great actually there's

3211
01:55:41,750 --> 01:55:40,400
a lovely fella michael masters uh it's

3212
01:55:43,669 --> 01:55:41,760
not because of his book that i'm doing

3213
01:55:45,109 --> 01:55:43,679
this but i commend to people michael's

3214
01:55:47,910 --> 01:55:45,119
explored this possibility in his

3215
01:55:49,990 --> 01:55:47,920
wonderful book dr michael masters

3216
01:55:52,310 --> 01:55:50,000
but the people that i'm talking to are

3217
01:55:55,350 --> 01:55:52,320
people inside the

3218
01:55:59,189 --> 01:55:57,589
see when you say that it might be future

3219
01:56:01,189 --> 01:55:59,199
okay possibly

3220
01:56:03,030 --> 01:56:01,199
supposing that it might be people from

3221
01:56:04,629 --> 01:56:03,040
the future coming back because perhaps

3222
01:56:05,910 --> 01:56:04,639
we annihilate ourselves at some point

3223
01:56:07,750 --> 01:56:05,920
maybe there's a remnant left and they

3224
01:56:09,189 --> 01:56:07,760
don't want that to happen to them

3225
01:56:11,030 --> 01:56:09,199
this is me surmising based on what

3226
01:56:12,629 --> 01:56:11,040
you've said

3227
01:56:14,470 --> 01:56:12,639
what occurs to me is well why don't why

3228
01:56:16,149 --> 01:56:14,480
not be more direct about it no you may

3229
01:56:17,669 --> 01:56:16,159
say oh yeah one may say

3230
01:56:20,629 --> 01:56:17,679
okay the shutting down of nukes is

3231
01:56:23,350 --> 01:56:20,639
direct but absolutely i mean someone you

3232
01:56:24,709 --> 01:56:23,360
make my you make my day by saying that

3233
01:56:26,629 --> 01:56:24,719
because i've had a conversation with

3234
01:56:28,790 --> 01:56:26,639
somebody recently where i've said

3235
01:56:29,990 --> 01:56:28,800
well okay hypothetically assuming that

3236
01:56:31,830 --> 01:56:30,000
it is that

3237
01:56:33,669 --> 01:56:31,840
how do you know that being open and

3238
01:56:35,990 --> 01:56:33,679
transparent isn't the very thing that

3239
01:56:37,109 --> 01:56:36,000
would fix the trend the time stream you

3240
01:56:39,030 --> 01:56:37,119
know how do you know that that wouldn't

3241
01:56:41,109 --> 01:56:39,040
be the very thing that makes humanity go

3242
01:56:42,550 --> 01:56:41,119
oh my god it's real

3243
01:56:44,629 --> 01:56:42,560
we're going to screw up this planet if

3244
01:56:46,550 --> 01:56:44,639
we don't fix it

3245
01:56:48,310 --> 01:56:46,560
i don't know my friend i just don't know

3246
01:56:51,109 --> 01:56:48,320
but i mean all i'm doing is exploring

3247
01:56:52,709 --> 01:56:51,119
that as a surmised hypothetical

3248
01:56:54,390 --> 01:56:52,719
possibility

3249
01:56:56,870 --> 01:56:54,400
because the other thing that is possible

3250
01:56:58,310 --> 01:56:56,880
here is just flat disinformation

3251
01:57:00,070 --> 01:56:58,320
you know as i said at the very beginning

3252
01:57:02,950 --> 01:57:00,080
of this conversation

3253
01:57:03,669 --> 01:57:02,960
intelligence services lie all the time

3254
01:57:05,510 --> 01:57:03,679
and

3255
01:57:07,910 --> 01:57:05,520
one of the things as a journalist you

3256
01:57:09,830 --> 01:57:07,920
have to do is try and figure out what

3257
01:57:11,030 --> 01:57:09,840
are the what are the little nuggets in

3258
01:57:15,510 --> 01:57:11,040
the middle of all of that that are

3259
01:57:18,790 --> 01:57:17,510
then how would that make sense with the

3260
01:57:20,390 --> 01:57:18,800
that's why i asked you earlier about the

3261
01:57:22,790 --> 01:57:20,400
one case where they turned it on what

3262
01:57:23,510 --> 01:57:22,800
would be the point of that

3263
01:57:25,350 --> 01:57:23,520
uh

3264
01:57:27,030 --> 01:57:25,360
i mean hypothetically perhaps it was to

3265
01:57:29,030 --> 01:57:27,040
scare the willies opposition

3266
01:57:30,550 --> 01:57:29,040
yeah no perhaps perhaps it was to scare

3267
01:57:31,830 --> 01:57:30,560
the willies out of the kremlin as much

3268
01:57:34,790 --> 01:57:31,840
as it scared the willies out of the

3269
01:57:36,790 --> 01:57:34,800
pentagon to make them realize that that

3270
01:57:38,550 --> 01:57:36,800
thinking of using nuclear weapons in a

3271
01:57:40,470 --> 01:57:38,560
defensive capacity is utterly

3272
01:57:42,470 --> 01:57:40,480
irresponsible and wrong

3273
01:57:44,390 --> 01:57:42,480
and that humanity needs to wake up to

3274
01:57:46,470 --> 01:57:44,400
itself and realize that we can't

3275
01:57:49,350 --> 01:57:46,480
continue on this course i mean the cold

3276
01:57:51,350 --> 01:57:49,360
war ended in 1989

3277
01:57:54,709 --> 01:57:51,360
i can remember as a young man i watched

3278
01:57:57,030 --> 01:57:54,719
a film called the day after which was a

3279
01:57:59,189 --> 01:57:57,040
representation in a film of what it

3280
01:58:01,750 --> 01:57:59,199
would look like for a nuclear war

3281
01:58:04,470 --> 01:58:01,760
and i genuinely i did not expect as a

3282
01:58:05,750 --> 01:58:04,480
teenage kid to survive the cold war i

3283
01:58:06,870 --> 01:58:05,760
really didn't expect to get into

3284
01:58:08,550 --> 01:58:06,880
adulthood

3285
01:58:11,510 --> 01:58:08,560
you people have forgotten

3286
01:58:13,669 --> 01:58:11,520
how bleak things were

3287
01:58:15,990 --> 01:58:13,679
you know when ronald reagan for example

3288
01:58:17,430 --> 01:58:16,000
was talking about the evil empire

3289
01:58:20,790 --> 01:58:17,440
there was talk about the strategic

3290
01:58:22,790 --> 01:58:20,800
defense initiative star wars you know

3291
01:58:24,870 --> 01:58:22,800
the russians were basically demonized

3292
01:58:26,629 --> 01:58:24,880
the whole soviet bloc was demonized we

3293
01:58:28,950 --> 01:58:26,639
didn't think of them as human we were

3294
01:58:31,830 --> 01:58:28,960
basically taught to think of them as

3295
01:58:33,189 --> 01:58:31,840
evil authoritarian communists

3296
01:58:35,270 --> 01:58:33,199
which

3297
01:58:37,430 --> 01:58:35,280
there was evil there was authoritarian

3298
01:58:39,669 --> 01:58:37,440
and there was nastiness but they were

3299
01:58:41,750 --> 01:58:39,679
human beings as well and i mean

3300
01:58:43,430 --> 01:58:41,760
ultimately maybe maybe at the heart of

3301
01:58:45,990 --> 01:58:43,440
all of this there is an intelligence

3302
01:58:48,790 --> 01:58:46,000
that's trying to make us think of

3303
01:58:51,430 --> 01:58:48,800
what we are we're human and maybe it's

3304
01:58:53,270 --> 01:58:51,440
in despair because we're not listening

3305
01:58:55,270 --> 01:58:53,280
because seriously i mean i had a

3306
01:58:57,270 --> 01:58:55,280
conversation with an indian journalist

3307
01:58:59,510 --> 01:58:57,280
just the other day talking about the

3308
01:59:00,950 --> 01:58:59,520
confrontations between india and

3309
01:59:04,709 --> 01:59:00,960
pakistan

3310
01:59:07,030 --> 01:59:04,719
and how there is genuine concern inside

3311
01:59:07,910 --> 01:59:07,040
the indian military

3312
01:59:12,709 --> 01:59:07,920
that

3313
01:59:14,470 --> 01:59:12,719
increasing basis there the the anomalous

3314
01:59:16,550 --> 01:59:14,480
mysterious objects that they're seeing

3315
01:59:17,830 --> 01:59:16,560
over their nuclear weapons

3316
01:59:20,149 --> 01:59:17,840
might

3317
01:59:22,070 --> 01:59:20,159
cause some kind of preemptive strike by

3318
01:59:23,030 --> 01:59:22,080
one against the other

3319
01:59:23,990 --> 01:59:23,040
and

3320
01:59:26,310 --> 01:59:24,000
you know

3321
01:59:28,950 --> 01:59:26,320
i know that this is a concern inside

3322
01:59:31,030 --> 01:59:28,960
america i mean we've we've come very

3323
01:59:32,149 --> 01:59:31,040
close in the past

3324
01:59:34,870 --> 01:59:32,159
to

3325
01:59:37,589 --> 01:59:34,880
almost launching nuclear weapons because

3326
01:59:39,350 --> 01:59:37,599
of anomalous objects seen on radar

3327
01:59:41,589 --> 01:59:39,360
systems

3328
01:59:43,430 --> 01:59:41,599
you know it is ridiculous that in this

3329
01:59:45,510 --> 01:59:43,440
day and age we still live and when

3330
01:59:48,310 --> 01:59:45,520
there's a great book the hero of the

3331
01:59:50,709 --> 01:59:48,320
pentagon papers daniel ellsberg

3332
01:59:53,830 --> 01:59:50,719
wrote a fantastic book about the work

3333
01:59:55,030 --> 01:59:53,840
that he did before he became the

3334
01:59:56,870 --> 01:59:55,040
renowned

3335
01:59:58,629 --> 01:59:56,880
whistleblower for the pentagon papers

3336
02:00:01,189 --> 01:59:58,639
that led to the revelations about the

3337
02:00:03,669 --> 02:00:01,199
dirty secrets the vietnam war

3338
02:00:05,990 --> 02:00:03,679
he was also retained by mcnamara the

3339
02:00:08,149 --> 02:00:06,000
defense secretary to review

3340
02:00:09,990 --> 02:00:08,159
the safety and the security of america's

3341
02:00:11,189 --> 02:00:10,000
nuclear weapons strategic nuclear

3342
02:00:13,589 --> 02:00:11,199
weapons

3343
02:00:15,350 --> 02:00:13,599
and what he found was horrifying and i

3344
02:00:16,470 --> 02:00:15,360
recommend i commend his book to anyone

3345
02:00:17,910 --> 02:00:16,480
because i think it's one of the most

3346
02:00:20,709 --> 02:00:17,920
important books i've read in years

3347
02:00:24,629 --> 02:00:20,719
because it actually showed that contrary

3348
02:00:26,709 --> 02:00:24,639
to what the public had been being told

3349
02:00:29,510 --> 02:00:26,719
generals military commanders had

3350
02:00:32,070 --> 02:00:29,520
delegated the decision making on the law

3351
02:00:35,270 --> 02:00:32,080
on the launch of nuclear weapons to

3352
02:00:37,669 --> 02:00:35,280
individual commanders in some locations

3353
02:00:40,149 --> 02:00:37,679
because they they were worried that

3354
02:00:42,149 --> 02:00:40,159
the way that the accountability controls

3355
02:00:44,070 --> 02:00:42,159
were set up for the launch of nuclear

3356
02:00:45,750 --> 02:00:44,080
weapons

3357
02:00:48,550 --> 02:00:45,760
it might not be possible to get a first

3358
02:00:50,709 --> 02:00:48,560
strike to get a response to strike off

3359
02:00:52,870 --> 02:00:50,719
if the soviets attacked and so they

3360
02:00:56,070 --> 02:00:52,880
delegated authority to individual

3361
02:00:57,669 --> 02:00:56,080
commanders to do a discretionary launch

3362
02:00:59,510 --> 02:00:57,679
and daniel's talked about this in his

3363
02:01:01,589 --> 02:00:59,520
book and i i you know it's just one of

3364
02:01:03,109 --> 02:01:01,599
those issues where maybe it's just too

3365
02:01:05,270 --> 02:01:03,119
complex for

3366
02:01:07,510 --> 02:01:05,280
people to talk about in mainstream media

3367
02:01:10,629 --> 02:01:07,520
or maybe people dismiss daniel ellsberg

3368
02:01:12,470 --> 02:01:10,639
as a you know a nutty cook but he's not

3369
02:01:14,709 --> 02:01:12,480
you know this is a highly intelligent

3370
02:01:16,709 --> 02:01:14,719
man who to this day

3371
02:01:18,390 --> 02:01:16,719
is as worried about the security of the

3372
02:01:21,189 --> 02:01:18,400
nuclear weapons repositories in the

3373
02:01:22,870 --> 02:01:21,199
united states and the soviet union china

3374
02:01:26,149 --> 02:01:22,880
russia britain france

3375
02:01:27,830 --> 02:01:26,159
india pakistan israel he's as worried

3376
02:01:30,950 --> 02:01:27,840
about all of these nuclear weapons now

3377
02:01:32,950 --> 02:01:30,960
as he was back then if not more

3378
02:01:37,189 --> 02:01:32,960
and we should we all should be

3379
02:01:38,950 --> 02:01:37,199
and and hypothetically what if what if

3380
02:01:42,550 --> 02:01:38,960
the phenomenon that we're now seeing in

3381
02:01:44,870 --> 02:01:42,560
our skies is trying to send us a message

3382
02:01:46,870 --> 02:01:44,880
when it goes on the radar as these

3383
02:01:49,189 --> 02:01:46,880
anomalous craft and it almost starts a

3384
02:01:50,790 --> 02:01:49,199
nuclear war does that not

3385
02:01:52,790 --> 02:01:50,800
contradict the

3386
02:01:55,750 --> 02:01:52,800
hypothesis that they're here to save us

3387
02:02:00,229 --> 02:01:55,760
should they not know about that

3388
02:02:06,070 --> 02:02:01,589
maybe they were sending a message i mean

3389
02:02:08,550 --> 02:02:06,080
we don't know i've got no idea i mean um

3390
02:02:11,030 --> 02:02:08,560
there's an amazing i've i've got the

3391
02:02:12,470 --> 02:02:11,040
documents in my files somewhere but

3392
02:02:13,990 --> 02:02:12,480
i didn't put it in the book and maybe i

3393
02:02:16,709 --> 02:02:14,000
should have done but

3394
02:02:19,030 --> 02:02:16,719
there's an amazing bit of work that's

3395
02:02:21,990 --> 02:02:19,040
been done by a researcher in los angeles

3396
02:02:23,589 --> 02:02:22,000
called brad sparks about

3397
02:02:25,830 --> 02:02:23,599
objects that

3398
02:02:28,950 --> 02:02:25,840
have actually crossed

3399
02:02:30,790 --> 02:02:28,960
their flown directly towards

3400
02:02:33,750 --> 02:02:30,800
presidential uh

3401
02:02:34,950 --> 02:02:33,760
residences or camp david or washington

3402
02:02:37,189 --> 02:02:34,960
dc

3403
02:02:38,950 --> 02:02:37,199
and there's been clear responses it's

3404
02:02:41,510 --> 02:02:38,960
almost like whatever it's doing it's

3405
02:02:42,550 --> 02:02:41,520
it's saying

3406
02:02:44,870 --> 02:02:42,560
um

3407
02:02:48,310 --> 02:02:44,880
hey you guys you know for all of your

3408
02:02:51,430 --> 02:02:48,320
weapons deterrent systems we can go and

3409
02:02:52,709 --> 02:02:51,440
do whatever we want wherever we want

3410
02:02:54,870 --> 02:02:52,719
and

3411
02:02:56,470 --> 02:02:54,880
maybe the point of manifesting this

3412
02:02:59,510 --> 02:02:56,480
capacity to

3413
02:03:01,270 --> 02:02:59,520
the most powerful country on the planet

3414
02:03:04,070 --> 02:03:01,280
is

3415
02:03:05,669 --> 02:03:04,080
to remind them that they're still just

3416
02:03:09,270 --> 02:03:05,679
human

3417
02:03:10,709 --> 02:03:09,280
uh and that mistakes can still be made

3418
02:03:14,470 --> 02:03:10,719
and to

3419
02:03:16,310 --> 02:03:14,480
make them think twice about the um

3420
02:03:17,910 --> 02:03:16,320
the control and oversight procedures

3421
02:03:20,390 --> 02:03:17,920
that they had on the deployment of some

3422
02:03:22,550 --> 02:03:20,400
of the more sensitive weaponry

3423
02:03:24,790 --> 02:03:22,560
uh i mean one of the things i didn't

3424
02:03:26,629 --> 02:03:24,800
realize until i spoke to bob salas i

3425
02:03:29,030 --> 02:03:26,639
always assumed that somebody like bob

3426
02:03:31,589 --> 02:03:29,040
salas the guy who was in the icbm

3427
02:03:33,109 --> 02:03:31,599
minuteman silo in the 1960s

3428
02:03:34,870 --> 02:03:33,119
i assumed that

3429
02:03:37,430 --> 02:03:34,880
he

3430
02:03:40,310 --> 02:03:37,440
could only launch his weapons once a

3431
02:03:42,709 --> 02:03:40,320
code was put into his system

3432
02:03:44,390 --> 02:03:42,719
and then with that authorization he and

3433
02:03:45,990 --> 02:03:44,400
his colleague could turn the key and it

3434
02:03:47,990 --> 02:03:46,000
would actually work

3435
02:03:50,229 --> 02:03:48,000
what he explained to me was that at that

3436
02:03:52,390 --> 02:03:50,239
period in the 1960s

3437
02:03:54,069 --> 02:03:52,400
yes they required an authorization

3438
02:03:57,430 --> 02:03:54,079
before they were allowed to turn their

3439
02:04:00,550 --> 02:03:57,440
key but they could still turn their key

3440
02:04:03,830 --> 02:04:00,560
which which to me seems insane

3441
02:04:06,709 --> 02:04:03,840
that you could have two guys in a silo

3442
02:04:08,229 --> 02:04:06,719
in the middle of the midwest in the usa

3443
02:04:10,229 --> 02:04:08,239
who

3444
02:04:11,910 --> 02:04:10,239
if they decided to go crazy for a moment

3445
02:04:14,790 --> 02:04:11,920
could just simultaneously turn their

3446
02:04:17,109 --> 02:04:14,800
keys and cause the nuclear war

3447
02:04:19,910 --> 02:04:17,119
i mean the control and oversight of

3448
02:04:21,910 --> 02:04:19,920
nuclear weapons really is a very serious

3449
02:04:24,310 --> 02:04:21,920
concern and um

3450
02:04:26,550 --> 02:04:24,320
especially now that we've got hydrogen

3451
02:04:28,620 --> 02:04:26,560
bombs that the likes of which the world

3452
02:04:30,709 --> 02:04:28,630
has never seen used in um

3453
02:04:33,589 --> 02:04:30,719
[Music]

3454
02:04:35,669 --> 02:04:33,599
in anger and god forbid that we ever did

3455
02:04:36,950 --> 02:04:35,679
i mean there's a great um

3456
02:04:38,390 --> 02:04:36,960
i was playing with this with one of my

3457
02:04:39,910 --> 02:04:38,400
daughters the other night

3458
02:04:41,589 --> 02:04:39,920
this is what we do at home

3459
02:04:43,270 --> 02:04:41,599
there's a great website you can go to

3460
02:04:45,830 --> 02:04:43,280
where you can actually measure the

3461
02:04:48,229 --> 02:04:45,840
impact of certain shapes of

3462
02:04:49,109 --> 02:04:48,239
thermonuclear bombs on different cities

3463
02:04:50,629 --> 02:04:49,119
and so

3464
02:04:52,870 --> 02:04:50,639
the other night we were dropping bombs

3465
02:04:54,310 --> 02:04:52,880
on canberra and sydney and just seeing

3466
02:04:55,750 --> 02:04:54,320
what would happen with the radiation

3467
02:04:57,430 --> 02:04:55,760
over where we live

3468
02:04:59,109 --> 02:04:57,440
and so we decided we'd be a lot better

3469
02:05:01,030 --> 02:04:59,119
off if a nuclear bomb was dropped on

3470
02:05:03,910 --> 02:05:01,040
sydney because all the radioactive waste

3471
02:05:05,750 --> 02:05:03,920
would go north from where we are but if

3472
02:05:07,189 --> 02:05:05,760
canberra gets a bomb dropped on it which

3473
02:05:09,589 --> 02:05:07,199
it probably will we're completely

3474
02:05:11,589 --> 02:05:09,599
screwed and i i'm being flippant here

3475
02:05:14,870 --> 02:05:11,599
but you know the the incredible thing to

3476
02:05:16,629 --> 02:05:14,880
me is that as a society

3477
02:05:19,109 --> 02:05:16,639
humanity lives

3478
02:05:22,870 --> 02:05:19,119
with the ever-present reality that there

3479
02:05:24,870 --> 02:05:22,880
are people sitting in silos right now

3480
02:05:27,030 --> 02:05:24,880
with their hands on the key

3481
02:05:30,310 --> 02:05:27,040
ready to accept the authorization codes

3482
02:05:31,910 --> 02:05:30,320
to launch their nuclear weapons and

3483
02:05:34,229 --> 02:05:31,920
when i was with

3484
02:05:36,390 --> 02:05:34,239
lou elizondo in wyoming we spent a

3485
02:05:38,310 --> 02:05:36,400
couple of days a few days in wyoming

3486
02:05:40,629 --> 02:05:38,320
with him and he lives in a beautiful

3487
02:05:42,149 --> 02:05:40,639
part of the cowboy country there

3488
02:05:45,750 --> 02:05:42,159
and

3489
02:05:47,350 --> 02:05:45,760
he lives not too far away from the huge

3490
02:05:49,669 --> 02:05:47,360
mountain that featured in close

3491
02:05:51,270 --> 02:05:49,679
encounters as a third kind and so i i

3492
02:05:52,790 --> 02:05:51,280
said to him look i really apologize for

3493
02:05:54,950 --> 02:05:52,800
asking you this but if you've got two

3494
02:05:56,550 --> 02:05:54,960
hours where we can take you to

3495
02:05:58,790 --> 02:05:56,560
that mountain and get some pictures of

3496
02:06:01,030 --> 02:05:58,800
you with that iconic mountain behind you

3497
02:06:03,270 --> 02:06:01,040
and he very kindly agreed

3498
02:06:05,910 --> 02:06:03,280
and as we were driving the few hours

3499
02:06:08,470 --> 02:06:05,920
along the highway there and back

3500
02:06:11,510 --> 02:06:08,480
he started pointing out to me

3501
02:06:14,069 --> 02:06:11,520
tracks leading off the road

3502
02:06:15,910 --> 02:06:14,079
and he said what do you think they are

3503
02:06:17,910 --> 02:06:15,920
and i said i don't know and all i could

3504
02:06:19,350 --> 02:06:17,920
see was just an aerial and a what looked

3505
02:06:21,189 --> 02:06:19,360
like a

3506
02:06:22,870 --> 02:06:21,199
a gas canister or something and i said i

3507
02:06:24,149 --> 02:06:22,880
don't know fuel fuel bowsers or

3508
02:06:28,950 --> 02:06:24,159
something

3509
02:06:32,149 --> 02:06:28,960
and he went the icbm launched silos

3510
02:06:34,310 --> 02:06:32,159
and as we were driving through wyoming

3511
02:06:36,069 --> 02:06:34,320
my whole understanding of this beautiful

3512
02:06:37,589 --> 02:06:36,079
landscape changed

3513
02:06:40,069 --> 02:06:37,599
and i was just thinking of that scene

3514
02:06:41,750 --> 02:06:40,079
from terminator where new york just

3515
02:06:43,030 --> 02:06:41,760
explodes you know all the bombs start

3516
02:06:44,390 --> 02:06:43,040
going off

3517
02:06:46,790 --> 02:06:44,400
because we're in this beautiful

3518
02:06:49,189 --> 02:06:46,800
absolutely stunning cowboy country

3519
02:06:50,870 --> 02:06:49,199
there's mountains with snow and

3520
02:06:52,709 --> 02:06:50,880
you know there's literally guys with

3521
02:06:53,990 --> 02:06:52,719
leather chaps walking through bars you

3522
02:06:55,350 --> 02:06:54,000
know it's just the most gorgeous part of

3523
02:06:57,910 --> 02:06:55,360
the world

3524
02:07:00,310 --> 02:06:57,920
and then the reality that i couldn't

3525
02:07:01,990 --> 02:07:00,320
help but notice as we were driving along

3526
02:07:03,510 --> 02:07:02,000
every few miles there would be another

3527
02:07:05,350 --> 02:07:03,520
one of these little tracks and they're

3528
02:07:07,990 --> 02:07:05,360
all built the same way because the same

3529
02:07:10,870 --> 02:07:08,000
contractor builds them the same way

3530
02:07:12,390 --> 02:07:10,880
and it's just amazing to me that in this

3531
02:07:14,550 --> 02:07:12,400
day and age

3532
02:07:17,350 --> 02:07:14,560
there would have been dozens of these

3533
02:07:19,270 --> 02:07:17,360
tracks leading up to what

3534
02:07:20,229 --> 02:07:19,280
you know there's two men sitting inside

3535
02:07:21,910 --> 02:07:20,239
a room

3536
02:07:22,950 --> 02:07:21,920
ready to turn the key on the president's

3537
02:07:24,390 --> 02:07:22,960
orders

3538
02:07:27,109 --> 02:07:24,400
and just trying to think of what that

3539
02:07:28,950 --> 02:07:27,119
landscape would look like with icbms

3540
02:07:30,229 --> 02:07:28,960
coming out of the silos all over that

3541
02:07:32,149 --> 02:07:30,239
landscape

3542
02:07:33,589 --> 02:07:32,159
it's so incongruous it's such an

3543
02:07:35,270 --> 02:07:33,599
incredible thing i think people don't

3544
02:07:37,270 --> 02:07:35,280
like thinking about it but

3545
02:07:39,430 --> 02:07:37,280
the reality is that friends of mine that

3546
02:07:41,270 --> 02:07:39,440
know these things that work in

3547
02:07:44,310 --> 02:07:41,280
national security they say we're closer

3548
02:07:46,550 --> 02:07:44,320
to nuclear war now than ever before

3549
02:07:48,950 --> 02:07:46,560
and the international environment now is

3550
02:07:51,669 --> 02:07:48,960
so unstable there are so many risks that

3551
02:07:53,589 --> 02:07:51,679
there might be an inadvertent nuclear

3552
02:07:55,510 --> 02:07:53,599
attack of some kind

3553
02:07:57,030 --> 02:07:55,520
and we need we need to

3554
02:07:59,430 --> 02:07:57,040
try and avert that

3555
02:08:00,870 --> 02:07:59,440
and maybe just maybe there is some

3556
02:08:02,790 --> 02:08:00,880
intelligence that's trying to let us

3557
02:08:04,470 --> 02:08:02,800
know about that

3558
02:08:06,229 --> 02:08:04,480
have you heard of the proposition that

3559
02:08:08,470 --> 02:08:06,239
the aliens are concerned with us

3560
02:08:10,069 --> 02:08:08,480
starting a war rather than stopping a

3561
02:08:13,430 --> 02:08:10,079
war

3562
02:08:15,270 --> 02:08:13,440
that they feed off of suffering

3563
02:08:17,910 --> 02:08:15,280
oh god now you're getting really

3564
02:08:18,790 --> 02:08:17,920
depressing please give me hope i like to

3565
02:08:20,790 --> 02:08:18,800
uh

3566
02:08:22,629 --> 02:08:20,800
i like to think of benevolence

3567
02:08:24,470 --> 02:08:22,639
intelligence i like to think that

3568
02:08:26,310 --> 02:08:24,480
something that's vastly technologically

3569
02:08:28,790 --> 02:08:26,320
superior to us and probably more

3570
02:08:30,950 --> 02:08:28,800
intelligent than us has developed a

3571
02:08:33,910 --> 02:08:30,960
moral values system that understands the

3572
02:08:37,270 --> 02:08:33,920
importance of utilitarian ideas and

3573
02:08:39,350 --> 02:08:37,280
moral decency and ethical values

3574
02:08:41,270 --> 02:08:39,360
tom de long freaked me out i spent a lot

3575
02:08:43,589 --> 02:08:41,280
of time listening to tom delong's

3576
02:08:45,430 --> 02:08:43,599
interviews where he was talking about

3577
02:08:49,030 --> 02:08:45,440
what he'd been told

3578
02:08:51,430 --> 02:08:49,040
by the general and other people inside

3579
02:08:56,790 --> 02:08:51,440
intelligence services before he went

3580
02:08:57,750 --> 02:08:56,800
public with ttsa in 2016 2017

3581
02:08:59,430 --> 02:08:57,760
and

3582
02:09:00,870 --> 02:08:59,440
you know i actually think it's

3583
02:09:03,510 --> 02:09:00,880
really interesting because he talked

3584
02:09:06,390 --> 02:09:03,520
about warring gods and

3585
02:09:08,229 --> 02:09:06,400
jealous gods and i thought it was crazy

3586
02:09:10,310 --> 02:09:08,239
and then

3587
02:09:13,270 --> 02:09:10,320
the dnc leak happened

3588
02:09:15,430 --> 02:09:13,280
and it turned out that he really was

3589
02:09:17,350 --> 02:09:15,440
talking i mean it's beyond dart people

3590
02:09:19,510 --> 02:09:17,360
don't realize this and again it's just

3591
02:09:21,589 --> 02:09:19,520
an amazing oversight by mainstream media

3592
02:09:24,390 --> 02:09:21,599
that they haven't picked up on this

3593
02:09:27,030 --> 02:09:24,400
the leaked wikileaks emails leaked by

3594
02:09:30,149 --> 02:09:27,040
the russian gru believe it or not who

3595
02:09:32,470 --> 02:09:30,159
hacked the democratic national committee

3596
02:09:34,310 --> 02:09:32,480
who tried to gain intelligence that

3597
02:09:35,510 --> 02:09:34,320
might help trump win against hillary

3598
02:09:39,270 --> 02:09:35,520
clinton

3599
02:09:42,069 --> 02:09:39,280
the dnc emails show irrefutably that tom

3600
02:09:43,510 --> 02:09:42,079
delong was telling the truth

3601
02:09:46,310 --> 02:09:43,520
when he said that he was in

3602
02:09:49,189 --> 02:09:46,320
communication with generals general neil

3603
02:09:51,270 --> 02:09:49,199
mccaslin general michael carey

3604
02:09:52,790 --> 02:09:51,280
robert weiss of skunk works lockheed

3605
02:09:54,310 --> 02:09:52,800
martin

3606
02:09:56,709 --> 02:09:54,320
john podesta

3607
02:09:58,950 --> 02:09:56,719
and other senior officers in space

3608
02:10:00,790 --> 02:09:58,960
command the central intelligence agency

3609
02:10:03,189 --> 02:10:00,800
in different sections of the us military

3610
02:10:05,350 --> 02:10:03,199
were giving this punk rock rock star

3611
02:10:07,430 --> 02:10:05,360
briefings talking to him about what they

3612
02:10:11,430 --> 02:10:07,440
knew

3613
02:10:15,669 --> 02:10:13,510
journalists look for evidence you look

3614
02:10:17,430 --> 02:10:15,679
for corroborative evidence and so i'd

3615
02:10:18,870 --> 02:10:17,440
listen to tom and i like everybody else

3616
02:10:21,189 --> 02:10:18,880
i've giggled and i thought this guy's

3617
02:10:22,950 --> 02:10:21,199
completely bananas you know there's one

3618
02:10:25,430 --> 02:10:22,960
particular coast coast interview where i

3619
02:10:27,589 --> 02:10:25,440
just gone nuts

3620
02:10:29,669 --> 02:10:27,599
and then i remember feeling very humbled

3621
02:10:32,470 --> 02:10:29,679
and quite ashamed of myself when i

3622
02:10:35,189 --> 02:10:32,480
realized oh my god and i'm going through

3623
02:10:37,270 --> 02:10:35,199
the dnc emails and going

3624
02:10:38,790 --> 02:10:37,280
hell's bells if he was telling the truth

3625
02:10:40,470 --> 02:10:38,800
about this

3626
02:10:42,950 --> 02:10:40,480
could it be he was telling the truth

3627
02:10:45,910 --> 02:10:42,960
about the general when the general said

3628
02:10:47,189 --> 02:10:45,920
it was the cold war and we found a life

3629
02:10:49,109 --> 02:10:47,199
form

3630
02:10:51,189 --> 02:10:49,119
could it be possibly true that the

3631
02:10:53,030 --> 02:10:51,199
general did say that to him

3632
02:10:54,629 --> 02:10:53,040
and if he didn't why would tom lie about

3633
02:10:55,430 --> 02:10:54,639
that

3634
02:10:57,510 --> 02:10:55,440
you know

3635
02:11:00,550 --> 02:10:57,520
why hasn't hillary clinton been asked

3636
02:11:02,709 --> 02:11:00,560
questions about this why was she clearly

3637
02:11:05,189 --> 02:11:02,719
clearly there were plans underway and

3638
02:11:08,870 --> 02:11:05,199
this is evidenced by these emails

3639
02:11:11,030 --> 02:11:08,880
there were plans underway by

3640
02:11:13,270 --> 02:11:11,040
john podesta in conjunction with certain

3641
02:11:14,550 --> 02:11:13,280
generals in the u.s military former and

3642
02:11:18,069 --> 02:11:14,560
serving

3643
02:11:19,669 --> 02:11:18,079
to do something about a disclosure

3644
02:11:21,669 --> 02:11:19,679
that's revealed in these emails they

3645
02:11:23,830 --> 02:11:21,679
were talking about telling the american

3646
02:11:26,069 --> 02:11:23,840
public something shortly after hillary

3647
02:11:27,910 --> 02:11:26,079
clinton became president

3648
02:11:31,030 --> 02:11:27,920
there was going to be some kind of

3649
02:11:34,390 --> 02:11:31,040
disclosure in 2017.

3650
02:11:36,950 --> 02:11:34,400
i just find it mind-blowing that that

3651
02:11:38,550 --> 02:11:36,960
you can have corroboration of the fact

3652
02:11:41,350 --> 02:11:38,560
that these meetings were taking place

3653
02:11:43,589 --> 02:11:41,360
with de long with very senior officials

3654
02:11:45,669 --> 02:11:43,599
he was telling the truth about that

3655
02:11:47,990 --> 02:11:45,679
and yet people haven't exercised the

3656
02:11:50,229 --> 02:11:48,000
curiosity to go well

3657
02:11:52,470 --> 02:11:50,239
if that was true

3658
02:11:55,510 --> 02:11:52,480
was tom telling the truth about warring

3659
02:11:58,229 --> 02:11:55,520
gods and evil aliens and

3660
02:11:59,589 --> 02:11:58,239
you know is that true could it be true

3661
02:12:00,950 --> 02:11:59,599
i think we should be asking these

3662
02:12:02,870 --> 02:12:00,960
questions

3663
02:12:04,870 --> 02:12:02,880
because something was going on and we

3664
02:12:06,709 --> 02:12:04,880
still don't know what it was and i just

3665
02:12:08,790 --> 02:12:06,719
find it mind-blowing that the new york

3666
02:12:11,750 --> 02:12:08,800
times the washington post

3667
02:12:13,350 --> 02:12:11,760
cbs abc nbc haven't gone

3668
02:12:18,069 --> 02:12:13,360
mrs clinton

3669
02:12:19,990 --> 02:12:18,079
was going on what was going on why was

3670
02:12:22,149 --> 02:12:20,000
john podesta meeting generals why were

3671
02:12:23,990 --> 02:12:22,159
there talks of disclosure why are these

3672
02:12:25,510 --> 02:12:24,000
questions not being asked

3673
02:12:29,270 --> 02:12:25,520
is it just me that thinks this have i

3674
02:12:32,709 --> 02:12:30,870
what was it that tom delonge said that

3675
02:12:35,189 --> 02:12:32,719
freaked you out

3676
02:12:36,550 --> 02:12:35,199
he oh there's so many interviews you can

3677
02:12:38,310 --> 02:12:36,560
i mean i don't want to sound like i'm

3678
02:12:40,229 --> 02:12:38,320
overly promoting my book but you know

3679
02:12:43,189 --> 02:12:40,239
i've detailed them in my book

3680
02:12:45,669 --> 02:12:43,199
uh he talked about warring gods

3681
02:12:46,870 --> 02:12:45,679
and and i guess if you're talking about

3682
02:12:48,709 --> 02:12:46,880
future humans that are so

3683
02:12:49,990 --> 02:12:48,719
technologically advanced maybe they are

3684
02:12:50,870 --> 02:12:50,000
gods

3685
02:12:53,589 --> 02:12:50,880
but

3686
02:12:55,830 --> 02:12:53,599
um basically there's a

3687
02:12:59,109 --> 02:12:55,840
uh a conflict going on

3688
02:13:00,790 --> 02:12:59,119
uh and that there were evils evil aliens

3689
02:13:03,589 --> 02:13:00,800
that were indeed you know there were

3690
02:13:05,589 --> 02:13:03,599
abductions and there were

3691
02:13:07,189 --> 02:13:05,599
humans being killed and you know it's

3692
02:13:08,950 --> 02:13:07,199
quite shocking stuff

3693
02:13:10,470 --> 02:13:08,960
and look i wouldn't believe any of it

3694
02:13:12,790 --> 02:13:10,480
for a moment

3695
02:13:13,830 --> 02:13:12,800
or give it any kind of

3696
02:13:17,189 --> 02:13:13,840
airing

3697
02:13:19,189 --> 02:13:17,199
until i see hard evidence but the fact

3698
02:13:25,350 --> 02:13:19,199
that

3699
02:13:27,589 --> 02:13:25,360
doing he was also meeting with generals

3700
02:13:30,709 --> 02:13:27,599
who were telling him these things

3701
02:13:32,149 --> 02:13:30,719
you know he actually describes in

3702
02:13:33,750 --> 02:13:32,159
one of his books

3703
02:13:36,229 --> 02:13:33,760
how he actually

3704
02:13:37,830 --> 02:13:36,239
sat down he got on a private plane was

3705
02:13:39,430 --> 02:13:37,840
told to go to a particular airport in

3706
02:13:40,790 --> 02:13:39,440
the midwest somewhere

3707
02:13:44,310 --> 02:13:40,800
and then he met

3708
02:13:46,870 --> 02:13:44,320
a very senior general in a back cafe in

3709
02:13:47,910 --> 02:13:46,880
a diner somewhere in the middle of

3710
02:13:49,589 --> 02:13:47,920
nowhere

3711
02:13:51,589 --> 02:13:49,599
and the general basically agreed to meet

3712
02:13:53,910 --> 02:13:51,599
him and give him a briefing

3713
02:13:56,629 --> 02:13:53,920
and he really did say you know it was

3714
02:13:58,470 --> 02:13:56,639
the cold war we we lived in constant

3715
02:14:00,790 --> 02:13:58,480
fear for our lives we thought the world

3716
02:14:03,830 --> 02:14:00,800
was going to you know explode

3717
02:14:05,270 --> 02:14:03,840
and then we found a life form

3718
02:14:10,390 --> 02:14:05,280
and

3719
02:14:11,669 --> 02:14:10,400
uh look i i i read the book you know

3720
02:14:13,430 --> 02:14:11,679
seriously i don't want to i don't want

3721
02:14:14,870 --> 02:14:13,440
to but basically

3722
02:14:16,950 --> 02:14:14,880
i mean i mean that's in the description

3723
02:14:19,030 --> 02:14:16,960
for people who would like to buy it

3724
02:14:20,709 --> 02:14:19,040
so basically the um

3725
02:14:22,950 --> 02:14:20,719
you know tom's made a whole series of

3726
02:14:27,189 --> 02:14:22,960
quite elaborate claims about what he was

3727
02:14:28,709 --> 02:14:27,199
told incredible detail of warring alien

3728
02:14:31,030 --> 02:14:28,719
groups who are trying to control the

3729
02:14:33,589 --> 02:14:31,040
human race and

3730
02:14:35,990 --> 02:14:33,599
he actually said that when people came

3731
02:14:37,189 --> 02:14:36,000
to understand what was really going on

3732
02:14:38,790 --> 02:14:37,199
they would actually think that the

3733
02:14:41,189 --> 02:14:38,800
reasons for the secrecy were actually

3734
02:14:43,109 --> 02:14:41,199
quite laudable and that the public would

3735
02:14:45,510 --> 02:14:43,119
actually be grateful for what's being

3736
02:14:47,350 --> 02:14:45,520
done on their behalf and who knows they

3737
02:14:48,190 --> 02:14:47,360
may very well be

3738
02:14:50,229 --> 02:14:48,200
but um

3739
02:14:53,189 --> 02:14:50,239
[Music]

3740
02:14:54,390 --> 02:14:53,199
to this day what is it now it's um

3741
02:14:56,229 --> 02:14:54,400
six years

3742
02:14:58,870 --> 02:14:56,239
since one of tom's last interviews where

3743
02:15:01,750 --> 02:14:58,880
he was talking about this stuff

3744
02:15:03,510 --> 02:15:01,760
uh you know he obviously set up ttsa i

3745
02:15:04,870 --> 02:15:03,520
think in the expectation that hillary

3746
02:15:06,310 --> 02:15:04,880
clinton was going to be the president

3747
02:15:07,270 --> 02:15:06,320
and she was going to be a disclosure

3748
02:15:09,589 --> 02:15:07,280
president

3749
02:15:11,109 --> 02:15:09,599
and no matter what hillary clinton or

3750
02:15:12,870 --> 02:15:11,119
bill have said publicly it's quite

3751
02:15:14,870 --> 02:15:12,880
obvious that there were negotiations

3752
02:15:17,510 --> 02:15:14,880
going on behind the scenes because the

3753
02:15:18,550 --> 02:15:17,520
emails with john podesta show very very

3754
02:15:20,870 --> 02:15:18,560
clearly

3755
02:15:22,629 --> 02:15:20,880
there's a key one where neil mccasland

3756
02:15:28,149 --> 02:15:22,639
who

3757
02:15:31,830 --> 02:15:28,159
the

3758
02:15:34,069 --> 02:15:31,840
division at wright-patterson air force

3759
02:15:36,149 --> 02:15:34,079
base i mean if there is somewhere in

3760
02:15:38,310 --> 02:15:36,159
america where

3761
02:15:40,069 --> 02:15:38,320
non-human technology is being stored

3762
02:15:41,510 --> 02:15:40,079
hypothetically that's where that's where

3763
02:15:44,229 --> 02:15:41,520
it's gone

3764
02:15:45,430 --> 02:15:44,239
and and he was purportedly

3765
02:15:46,629 --> 02:15:45,440
briefing

3766
02:15:48,830 --> 02:15:46,639
dulong

3767
02:15:51,990 --> 02:15:48,840
and this is shown in these wikileaks

3768
02:15:53,910 --> 02:15:52,000
emails and they are leaked emails that

3769
02:15:56,229 --> 02:15:53,920
were never intended to be public that

3770
02:15:58,470 --> 02:15:56,239
were clearly regarded by the dnc as

3771
02:16:01,109 --> 02:15:58,480
being highly secure

3772
02:16:04,470 --> 02:16:01,119
and guess who leaked them the russians

3773
02:16:06,229 --> 02:16:04,480
the russians hacked into the dnc

3774
02:16:08,790 --> 02:16:06,239
leak leaking them thinking that the

3775
02:16:11,430 --> 02:16:08,800
exchanges might assist donald trump in

3776
02:16:13,669 --> 02:16:11,440
his re-election ask yourself why was why

3777
02:16:15,830 --> 02:16:13,679
that would have been the case

3778
02:16:17,030 --> 02:16:15,840
but um whatever you think of trump or

3779
02:16:18,709 --> 02:16:17,040
whatever you think of clinton the

3780
02:16:20,470 --> 02:16:18,719
reality is these conversations were

3781
02:16:22,470 --> 02:16:20,480
taking place

3782
02:16:24,550 --> 02:16:22,480
and i think that's important and it's a

3783
02:16:26,390 --> 02:16:24,560
piece of history that nobody has asked

3784
02:16:27,990 --> 02:16:26,400
questions about i've

3785
02:16:28,950 --> 02:16:28,000
asked frankly i've asked colleagues of

3786
02:16:30,629 --> 02:16:28,960
mine in

3787
02:16:32,309 --> 02:16:30,639
major national newspapers and tv

3788
02:16:33,830 --> 02:16:32,319
networks in the states why they haven't

3789
02:16:35,429 --> 02:16:33,840
looked at this and all of them have been

3790
02:16:36,790 --> 02:16:35,439
unaware of it

3791
02:16:39,110 --> 02:16:36,800
all of them have been unaware of the

3792
02:16:40,709 --> 02:16:39,120
significance of these momentous emails

3793
02:16:42,070 --> 02:16:40,719
where

3794
02:16:44,150 --> 02:16:42,080
you know it's only when you actually

3795
02:16:46,790 --> 02:16:44,160
look at what tom delong was saying that

3796
02:16:49,589 --> 02:16:46,800
he'd been briefed into the existence of

3797
02:16:51,429 --> 02:16:49,599
an alien spacecraft retrieval program by

3798
02:16:52,870 --> 02:16:51,439
members of the u.s government

3799
02:16:55,509 --> 02:16:52,880
that there was a back engineering

3800
02:16:57,669 --> 02:16:55,519
program going on underway but also at

3801
02:17:00,150 --> 02:16:57,679
the same time there was a war going on

3802
02:17:01,910 --> 02:17:00,160
between competing civilizations that

3803
02:17:04,150 --> 02:17:01,920
were competing for control of the human

3804
02:17:05,030 --> 02:17:04,160
race i mean mind-boggling stuff

3805
02:17:06,870 --> 02:17:05,040
uh

3806
02:17:08,309 --> 02:17:06,880
basically it was also talking about how

3807
02:17:10,629 --> 02:17:08,319
ancient there'd been previous

3808
02:17:12,230 --> 02:17:10,639
civilizations on this planet before

3809
02:17:14,790 --> 02:17:12,240
humanity arrived

3810
02:17:18,309 --> 02:17:14,800
and they'd been wiped out in cataclysms

3811
02:17:19,990 --> 02:17:18,319
and um you know a lot of the evidence of

3812
02:17:22,709 --> 02:17:20,000
old civilizations if you actually

3813
02:17:26,389 --> 02:17:22,719
analyzed them properly were not

3814
02:17:27,349 --> 02:17:26,399
derived from current human civilization

3815
02:17:29,270 --> 02:17:27,359
i mean

3816
02:17:31,509 --> 02:17:29,280
mind-boggling stuff and all credit to

3817
02:17:33,349 --> 02:17:31,519
tom frankly i am a sincere apology for

3818
02:17:35,589 --> 02:17:33,359
my appalling american imitation of his

3819
02:17:38,549 --> 02:17:35,599
american accent and my audible version

3820
02:17:40,709 --> 02:17:38,559
of my book but uh uh you know he he's

3821
02:17:42,950 --> 02:17:40,719
been proved right he's been proved right

3822
02:17:43,750 --> 02:17:42,960
he really was having these meetings and

3823
02:17:47,910 --> 02:17:43,760
when

3824
02:17:50,309 --> 02:17:47,920
rojas coast to coast and

3825
02:17:51,589 --> 02:17:50,319
different um

3826
02:17:52,870 --> 02:17:51,599
different uh

3827
02:17:56,629 --> 02:17:52,880
uh

3828
02:17:58,230 --> 02:17:56,639
podcasts he was um laughed at you know

3829
02:18:00,309 --> 02:17:58,240
people derided him they says our tom

3830
02:18:01,349 --> 02:18:00,319
neuron's gone crazy but all credit to

3831
02:18:02,790 --> 02:18:01,359
him

3832
02:18:05,190 --> 02:18:02,800
it will appear

3833
02:18:07,750 --> 02:18:05,200
that from the corroboration that exists

3834
02:18:10,389 --> 02:18:07,760
in the wikileaks emails on at least some

3835
02:18:11,990 --> 02:18:10,399
points we can confirm he was absolutely

3836
02:18:14,629 --> 02:18:12,000
telling the truth

3837
02:18:16,790 --> 02:18:14,639
about

3838
02:18:18,870 --> 02:18:16,800
what else was he being told by the us

3839
02:18:20,709 --> 02:18:18,880
military and more importantly

3840
02:18:22,870 --> 02:18:20,719
was that the truth or was it

3841
02:18:24,870 --> 02:18:22,880
disinformation

3842
02:18:26,629 --> 02:18:24,880
i mean were they using tom to get a

3843
02:18:28,070 --> 02:18:26,639
story out there that they knew people

3844
02:18:29,910 --> 02:18:28,080
would pick up on because he was a

3845
02:18:32,230 --> 02:18:29,920
popular figure that's always a

3846
02:18:33,830 --> 02:18:32,240
possibility as well you always have to

3847
02:18:35,750 --> 02:18:33,840
be mindful for the possibility of

3848
02:18:37,589 --> 02:18:35,760
disinformation now this comes from

3849
02:18:39,750 --> 02:18:37,599
william edwards ross what do you think

3850
02:18:41,509 --> 02:18:39,760
of eric davis and hal put off's

3851
02:18:44,469 --> 02:18:41,519
involvement with the sapphire project

3852
02:18:46,309 --> 02:18:44,479
and electric universe theory

3853
02:18:49,910 --> 02:18:46,319
well spotted

3854
02:18:52,230 --> 02:18:49,920
i think that's very very significant

3855
02:18:55,110 --> 02:18:52,240
i'm taking a very close interest in the

3856
02:18:57,349 --> 02:18:55,120
sapphire project because it's made a

3857
02:19:00,070 --> 02:18:57,359
number of claims about its technology

3858
02:19:01,589 --> 02:19:00,080
that frankly are more inspiring i mean

3859
02:19:03,669 --> 02:19:01,599
they are literally claiming that they're

3860
02:19:06,070 --> 02:19:03,679
getting more energy out than in at the

3861
02:19:07,270 --> 02:19:06,080
moment they've also claimed at different

3862
02:19:09,910 --> 02:19:07,280
times to

3863
02:19:12,309 --> 02:19:09,920
have an antigravitic effect across the

3864
02:19:17,030 --> 02:19:12,319
poles of the diode that they're using to

3865
02:19:20,950 --> 02:19:19,509
i've also been concerned to see that

3866
02:19:23,429 --> 02:19:20,960
various

3867
02:19:25,509 --> 02:19:23,439
defense officials and

3868
02:19:27,349 --> 02:19:25,519
aerospace companies that are notorious

3869
02:19:29,030 --> 02:19:27,359
for covering things up have

3870
02:19:30,389 --> 02:19:29,040
come onto the picture and are taking an

3871
02:19:32,070 --> 02:19:30,399
active interest in the sapphire

3872
02:19:33,910 --> 02:19:32,080
technology and my worry is is that

3873
02:19:37,429 --> 02:19:33,920
sapphire like so many technologies

3874
02:19:39,509 --> 02:19:37,439
before it will disappear into the black

3875
02:19:41,750 --> 02:19:39,519
i hope it doesn't because it really is

3876
02:19:43,030 --> 02:19:41,760
quite exciting i mean i i'm i'm not a

3877
02:19:45,349 --> 02:19:43,040
physicist

3878
02:19:48,549 --> 02:19:45,359
but one of the things that i'm

3879
02:19:52,550 --> 02:19:48,559
fascinated by is

3880
02:19:53,349 --> 02:19:52,560
the growing science to suggest that

3881
02:19:55,429 --> 02:19:53,359
the

3882
02:19:58,309 --> 02:19:55,439
academic dismissiveness of what's been

3883
02:20:00,790 --> 02:19:58,319
called cold fusion in the past

3884
02:20:03,590 --> 02:20:00,800
is not entirely legitimate

3885
02:20:05,750 --> 02:20:03,600
and that whilst we've been looking for

3886
02:20:08,469 --> 02:20:05,760
many years at containing fusion

3887
02:20:10,230 --> 02:20:08,479
reactions in for example magnetic

3888
02:20:13,270 --> 02:20:10,240
tokamak reactors

3889
02:20:14,870 --> 02:20:13,280
that essentially magnetically constrain

3890
02:20:16,790 --> 02:20:14,880
a fusion reaction

3891
02:20:19,349 --> 02:20:16,800
it may be possible to create

3892
02:20:22,309 --> 02:20:19,359
self-generating plasmas

3893
02:20:27,270 --> 02:20:25,190
draw energy in a way that we don't yet

3894
02:20:29,750 --> 02:20:27,280
comprehend

3895
02:20:32,309 --> 02:20:29,760
uh from what i think hal put off calls

3896
02:20:34,309 --> 02:20:32,319
the zero point energy field

3897
02:20:35,590 --> 02:20:34,319
and look you know i'm not a physicist so

3898
02:20:38,389 --> 02:20:35,600
i'm not even going to try and explain

3899
02:20:40,309 --> 02:20:38,399
this in a scientific way but i suggest i

3900
02:20:43,190 --> 02:20:40,319
commend to everybody go and have a look

3901
02:20:44,070 --> 02:20:43,200
at the sapphire

3902
02:20:45,110 --> 02:20:44,080
r s-a-f-i-r-e

3903
02:20:45,910 --> 02:20:45,120
project

3904
02:20:47,990 --> 02:20:45,920
it's

3905
02:20:49,750 --> 02:20:48,000
got videos that show what they've been

3906
02:20:51,590 --> 02:20:49,760
able to achieve

3907
02:20:53,270 --> 02:20:51,600
and there's some interesting analysis if

3908
02:20:55,110 --> 02:20:53,280
you go to the

3909
02:20:56,870 --> 02:20:55,120
martin fleischmann memorial project

3910
02:20:59,270 --> 02:20:56,880
there's been some interesting work done

3911
02:21:01,830 --> 02:20:59,280
by different researchers analyzing the

3912
02:21:04,389 --> 02:21:01,840
implications of their technology

3913
02:21:06,510 --> 02:21:04,399
and what fascinates me about it is it

3914
02:21:09,110 --> 02:21:06,520
all goes to the notion of

3915
02:21:12,309 --> 02:21:09,120
self-contained plasmas and there's a lot

3916
02:21:13,510 --> 02:21:12,319
of theoretical work that suggests that

3917
02:21:16,469 --> 02:21:13,520
if there's ever going to be a

3918
02:21:19,670 --> 02:21:16,479
breakthrough in anti-gravity

3919
02:21:21,510 --> 02:21:19,680
if it is possible to

3920
02:21:23,750 --> 02:21:21,520
uh create an

3921
02:21:25,830 --> 02:21:23,760
alcubierre drive you know to essentially

3922
02:21:27,270 --> 02:21:25,840
distort space-time and put a bubble in

3923
02:21:29,990 --> 02:21:27,280
front of a vehicle

3924
02:21:32,150 --> 02:21:30,000
that distorts space-time

3925
02:21:33,910 --> 02:21:32,160
and allows an object to move across the

3926
02:21:36,550 --> 02:21:33,920
universe by essentially going through

3927
02:21:38,230 --> 02:21:36,560
the fabric of space-time if that kind of

3928
02:21:39,990 --> 02:21:38,240
theoretical possibility which has

3929
02:21:41,910 --> 02:21:40,000
already been said by quantum physics to

3930
02:21:43,110 --> 02:21:41,920
be a theoretical possibility

3931
02:21:44,950 --> 02:21:43,120
is possible

3932
02:21:47,750 --> 02:21:44,960
perhaps one of the ways of doing this is

3933
02:21:50,469 --> 02:21:47,760
to use plasma technology to distort

3934
02:21:53,349 --> 02:21:50,479
to distort space time and perhaps that

3935
02:21:55,590 --> 02:21:53,359
explains the plasma hues that are often

3936
02:21:59,349 --> 02:21:55,600
seen on these anomalous objects that are

3937
02:21:59,359 --> 02:22:03,830
what was found on the moon ross

3938
02:22:08,309 --> 02:22:06,389
i was watching this documentary by red

3939
02:22:09,830 --> 02:22:08,319
red panda koala and i'll link that in

3940
02:22:11,990 --> 02:22:09,840
the description it's a great documentary

3941
02:22:13,510 --> 02:22:12,000
on tom delong and he was saying that

3942
02:22:15,110 --> 02:22:13,520
what happened with

3943
02:22:16,710 --> 02:22:15,120
the us that went to the moon that

3944
02:22:19,429 --> 02:22:16,720
afterward the

3945
02:22:21,270 --> 02:22:19,439
u.s was involved in disinformation

3946
02:22:22,790 --> 02:22:21,280
saying that we didn't go to the moon so

3947
02:22:25,590 --> 02:22:22,800
that people can

3948
02:22:27,270 --> 02:22:25,600
squabble over who over whether or not

3949
02:22:29,510 --> 02:22:27,280
the moon landing was real

3950
02:22:31,830 --> 02:22:29,520
and then not ask the question well what

3951
02:22:32,710 --> 02:22:31,840
did they find on the moon and apparently

3952
02:22:34,870 --> 02:22:32,720
there was

3953
02:22:36,790 --> 02:22:34,880
something interesting so i'm curious

3954
02:22:37,750 --> 02:22:36,800
what was found on the moon look uh

3955
02:22:56,870 --> 02:22:37,760
i

3956
02:22:59,110 --> 02:22:56,880
and followed back

3957
02:23:01,349 --> 02:22:59,120
and edgar even told his friend that when

3958
02:23:03,349 --> 02:23:01,359
he was on the moon

3959
02:23:06,710 --> 02:23:03,359
in the course of coming in flying the

3960
02:23:08,389 --> 02:23:06,720
lunar module into a landing position

3961
02:23:10,070 --> 02:23:08,399
on i think it's the sea of morris i

3962
02:23:11,270 --> 02:23:10,080
can't remember again the precise name

3963
02:23:13,510 --> 02:23:11,280
but um

3964
02:23:14,870 --> 02:23:13,520
he claimed to my friends that he saw an

3965
02:23:16,469 --> 02:23:14,880
object

3966
02:23:19,670 --> 02:23:16,479
which

3967
02:23:22,870 --> 02:23:19,680
funnily enough when you actually look at

3968
02:23:26,630 --> 02:23:24,710
the film the nasa film of the lunar

3969
02:23:29,590 --> 02:23:26,640
module landing if you look where he says

3970
02:23:30,830 --> 02:23:29,600
he saw the object you can see something

3971
02:23:32,870 --> 02:23:30,840
that's

3972
02:23:34,150 --> 02:23:32,880
anomalous but he says that when they

3973
02:23:35,990 --> 02:23:34,160
landed and he got out of the lunar

3974
02:23:37,910 --> 02:23:36,000
module and was doing his walk he looked

3975
02:23:39,190 --> 02:23:37,920
back across to see if he could see that

3976
02:23:42,230 --> 02:23:39,200
object and he should have been able to

3977
02:23:43,750 --> 02:23:42,240
see it but he couldn't see it anymore

3978
02:23:45,190 --> 02:23:43,760
so um

3979
02:23:46,950 --> 02:23:45,200
edgar mitchell's not the only one he's

3980
02:23:48,870 --> 02:23:46,960
not the only astronaut and people really

3981
02:23:51,590 --> 02:23:48,880
should take a much closer look at this

3982
02:23:53,830 --> 02:23:51,600
he's not the only person who said that

3983
02:23:56,469 --> 02:23:53,840
he's seen stuff a lot of astronauts have

3984
02:23:58,309 --> 02:23:56,479
reported seeing anomalous phenomena

3985
02:24:00,550 --> 02:23:58,319
but frankly if there is stuff on the

3986
02:24:02,550 --> 02:24:00,560
moon i just don't know i'm not privy to

3987
02:24:04,469 --> 02:24:02,560
any secret information nobody's given me

3988
02:24:05,590 --> 02:24:04,479
a briefing about it but

3989
02:24:07,429 --> 02:24:05,600
um

3990
02:24:09,110 --> 02:24:07,439
certainly astronauts have reported

3991
02:24:11,750 --> 02:24:09,120
seeing anomalous phenomena there for

3992
02:24:13,910 --> 02:24:11,760
years and i i i don't think nasa has

3993
02:24:16,309 --> 02:24:13,920
given a full accounting of all of the

3994
02:24:18,469 --> 02:24:16,319
anomalous objects that have been seen

3995
02:24:23,830 --> 02:24:18,479
from the space station or indeed from

3996
02:24:28,630 --> 02:24:26,150
okay brandon irwin says heck yes you're

3997
02:24:31,750 --> 02:24:28,640
picking all my dream guests kurt do you

3998
02:24:34,230 --> 02:24:31,760
have fun reading technology

3999
02:24:36,710 --> 02:24:34,240
in plain sight is gold my question is

4000
02:24:38,469 --> 02:24:36,720
does ross think there's any substantial

4001
02:24:40,469 --> 02:24:38,479
there's anything substantial to tom

4002
02:24:43,349 --> 02:24:40,479
delong's claim that the dod

4003
02:24:45,910 --> 02:24:43,359
has been testing reverse engineered uap

4004
02:24:48,710 --> 02:24:45,920
that can disappear as claimed on his now

4005
02:24:50,309 --> 02:24:48,720
infamous rogan podcast in other words

4006
02:24:53,429 --> 02:24:50,319
has ross heard any legitimate claims

4007
02:24:57,910 --> 02:24:53,439
from his sources that the dod has tested

4008
02:25:01,349 --> 02:24:59,750
look again i'm kind of nervous even

4009
02:25:03,190 --> 02:25:01,359
beginning to answer this question

4010
02:25:05,670 --> 02:25:03,200
because yet again

4011
02:25:06,870 --> 02:25:05,680
i preface everything i say here by

4012
02:25:09,750 --> 02:25:06,880
saying

4013
02:25:12,230 --> 02:25:09,760
i am highly skeptical of what i'm about

4014
02:25:15,030 --> 02:25:13,670
i don't know whether to believe it or

4015
02:25:17,990 --> 02:25:15,040
not

4016
02:25:20,469 --> 02:25:18,000
and when i did my book research i did

4017
02:25:22,870 --> 02:25:20,479
what any investigative journalist does

4018
02:25:24,950 --> 02:25:22,880
which is i thought about how do i

4019
02:25:26,870 --> 02:25:24,960
protect sources that should be the first

4020
02:25:28,630 --> 02:25:26,880
imperative with anybody when they're

4021
02:25:30,950 --> 02:25:28,640
doing this kind of digging because

4022
02:25:33,270 --> 02:25:30,960
anybody who's talking about

4023
02:25:34,950 --> 02:25:33,280
what they know about the program if such

4024
02:25:36,710 --> 02:25:34,960
a secret program exists in the us

4025
02:25:38,870 --> 02:25:36,720
government you're inviting them to

4026
02:25:40,150 --> 02:25:38,880
breach their security guards so how do

4027
02:25:42,790 --> 02:25:40,160
you do that

4028
02:25:44,710 --> 02:25:42,800
so i knew i had phone numbers and email

4029
02:25:47,030 --> 02:25:44,720
addresses for a lot of people hundreds

4030
02:25:49,110 --> 02:25:47,040
of people that i knew

4031
02:25:51,110 --> 02:25:49,120
were people who if there was such a

4032
02:25:52,950 --> 02:25:51,120
program would probably know about it

4033
02:25:55,590 --> 02:25:52,960
and i did things like i looked at

4034
02:25:57,030 --> 02:25:55,600
members of the special access pro

4035
02:25:59,110 --> 02:25:57,040
special access program oversight

4036
02:26:00,710 --> 02:25:59,120
committee past and present members of

4037
02:26:02,870 --> 02:26:00,720
the dia

4038
02:26:04,389 --> 02:26:02,880
uh people who were cleared into certain

4039
02:26:06,790 --> 02:26:04,399
projects that had been written about in

4040
02:26:09,750 --> 02:26:06,800
academic papers and i just basically

4041
02:26:12,150 --> 02:26:09,760
trawled as far and wide as i looked for

4042
02:26:13,750 --> 02:26:12,160
names and addresses of these people

4043
02:26:15,510 --> 02:26:13,760
and the thing i love about america is

4044
02:26:17,349 --> 02:26:15,520
you're such an open society that it was

4045
02:26:19,110 --> 02:26:17,359
possible to get the home addresses in

4046
02:26:21,030 --> 02:26:19,120
many cases and so

4047
02:26:22,630 --> 02:26:21,040
rather than leave an electronic trail

4048
02:26:24,230 --> 02:26:22,640
which i knew would compromise them

4049
02:26:26,469 --> 02:26:24,240
immediately because it can always be

4050
02:26:29,030 --> 02:26:26,479
picked up the metadata is always stored

4051
02:26:30,550 --> 02:26:29,040
from mobile phone telephony or emails or

4052
02:26:33,110 --> 02:26:30,560
sms's

4053
02:26:35,190 --> 02:26:33,120
i or social media i

4054
02:26:37,190 --> 02:26:35,200
i wrote good old-fashioned letters so

4055
02:26:40,710 --> 02:26:37,200
for months i just wrote letter after

4056
02:26:42,230 --> 02:26:40,720
letter after letter after letter

4057
02:26:44,469 --> 02:26:42,240
and some of the people that i wrote to

4058
02:26:47,270 --> 02:26:44,479
were people that i had been told by

4059
02:26:49,110 --> 02:26:47,280
other sources were people who had worked

4060
02:26:50,790 --> 02:26:49,120
in what is euphemistically called the

4061
02:26:56,070 --> 02:26:50,800
program

4062
02:26:57,830 --> 02:26:56,080
allegedly and i emphasize again i'm only

4063
02:27:00,230 --> 02:26:57,840
saying that this is what i've been told

4064
02:27:02,790 --> 02:27:00,240
i'm not saying it's real

4065
02:27:04,389 --> 02:27:02,800
anyway i started getting messages back

4066
02:27:06,309 --> 02:27:04,399
people were communicating with me on

4067
02:27:08,870 --> 02:27:06,319
encrypted apps or

4068
02:27:11,270 --> 02:27:08,880
messaging systems that

4069
02:27:13,590 --> 02:27:11,280
i was told to access them through

4070
02:27:16,150 --> 02:27:13,600
on the dark web

4071
02:27:17,030 --> 02:27:16,160
and they provided me with information

4072
02:27:18,630 --> 02:27:17,040
that

4073
02:27:20,550 --> 02:27:18,640
they said

4074
02:27:21,670 --> 02:27:20,560
the public should know

4075
02:27:23,510 --> 02:27:21,680
and

4076
02:27:25,510 --> 02:27:23,520
they asserted that there was a back

4077
02:27:28,550 --> 02:27:25,520
engineering program that there is

4078
02:27:30,870 --> 02:27:28,560
recovered multiple craft

4079
02:27:33,429 --> 02:27:30,880
but i got different messages about the

4080
02:27:35,590 --> 02:27:33,439
success of those programs i was told

4081
02:27:36,630 --> 02:27:35,600
that yes there have been multiple craft

4082
02:27:37,750 --> 02:27:36,640
recovered

4083
02:27:39,429 --> 02:27:37,760
but

4084
02:27:41,510 --> 02:27:39,439
a number of sources told me that they've

4085
02:27:44,230 --> 02:27:41,520
been largely unsuccessful in replicating

4086
02:27:45,990 --> 02:27:44,240
the technology and that indeed was the

4087
02:27:47,830 --> 02:27:46,000
explanation that was given to me as the

4088
02:27:49,110 --> 02:27:47,840
reason why the public hadn't been told

4089
02:27:50,630 --> 02:27:49,120
the whole story

4090
02:27:52,710 --> 02:27:50,640
because why would you why would you give

4091
02:27:53,510 --> 02:27:52,720
a strategic advantage to your rivals

4092
02:27:55,270 --> 02:27:53,520
your

4093
02:27:57,270 --> 02:27:55,280
international rivals like russia or

4094
02:27:58,790 --> 02:27:57,280
china by revealing the existence of this

4095
02:28:00,950 --> 02:27:58,800
technology when

4096
02:28:03,590 --> 02:28:00,960
allegedly and again i'm not saying this

4097
02:28:06,950 --> 02:28:03,600
is for sure but i've been told also that

4098
02:28:08,230 --> 02:28:06,960
the russians have recovered technology

4099
02:28:10,150 --> 02:28:08,240
so

4100
02:28:12,070 --> 02:28:10,160
that's what i've been told you know i've

4101
02:28:13,910 --> 02:28:12,080
been told that you know there are people

4102
02:28:15,670 --> 02:28:13,920
that have made claims to me that they've

4103
02:28:17,590 --> 02:28:15,680
been involved in the program but they've

4104
02:28:18,950 --> 02:28:17,600
been read into different aspects of the

4105
02:28:21,429 --> 02:28:18,960
program and that they've been working on

4106
02:28:23,910 --> 02:28:21,439
different parts of the technology

4107
02:28:25,429 --> 02:28:23,920
but nobody that i've spoken to has told

4108
02:28:28,550 --> 02:28:25,439
me that they've been able to replicate

4109
02:28:31,110 --> 02:28:28,560
it successfully and develop a working

4110
02:28:33,510 --> 02:28:31,120
anti-gravity propulsion drive or free

4111
02:28:35,750 --> 02:28:33,520
energy drive

4112
02:28:38,790 --> 02:28:35,760
and then you have these weird cognitive

4113
02:28:41,750 --> 02:28:38,800
dissonances with things like the patents

4114
02:28:44,309 --> 02:28:41,760
that were filed by the us navy by a guy

4115
02:28:47,349 --> 02:28:44,319
called dr salvatore pay

4116
02:28:50,230 --> 02:28:47,359
from the u.s navy's paxton

4117
02:28:52,630 --> 02:28:50,240
research laboratory in washington dc

4118
02:28:54,550 --> 02:28:52,640
which make completely off the wall

4119
02:28:55,830 --> 02:28:54,560
claims that they have operable

4120
02:28:58,309 --> 02:28:55,840
technology

4121
02:28:59,990 --> 02:28:58,319
force field generators room temperature

4122
02:29:01,830 --> 02:29:00,000
super conductors

4123
02:29:06,070 --> 02:29:01,840
trans-medium vehicles that look

4124
02:29:10,710 --> 02:29:08,070
you know weird fusion reactors i mean

4125
02:29:13,750 --> 02:29:10,720
it's it's weird stuff that's been sought

4126
02:29:15,429 --> 02:29:13,760
for patent applications by the us navy

4127
02:29:17,830 --> 02:29:15,439
and when in a number of cases they were

4128
02:29:19,190 --> 02:29:17,840
knocked back by the patent examiners and

4129
02:29:21,510 --> 02:29:19,200
queried about the validity of the

4130
02:29:25,429 --> 02:29:21,520
scientific claims

4131
02:29:26,950 --> 02:29:25,439
a letter was sent in by pays commander a

4132
02:29:29,270 --> 02:29:26,960
guy called sheehy

4133
02:29:30,230 --> 02:29:29,280
who asserted that the technology was

4134
02:29:32,309 --> 02:29:30,240
quote

4135
02:29:34,230 --> 02:29:32,319
operable

4136
02:29:36,870 --> 02:29:34,240
so we're at a really interesting period

4137
02:29:39,429 --> 02:29:36,880
in history right now where an arm of the

4138
02:29:42,070 --> 02:29:39,439
u.s defense department has asserted that

4139
02:29:45,110 --> 02:29:42,080
it has cracked this technology

4140
02:29:47,590 --> 02:29:45,120
publicly though we're being told

4141
02:29:49,270 --> 02:29:47,600
nothing about it

4142
02:29:52,469 --> 02:29:49,280
yet at the same time

4143
02:29:55,110 --> 02:29:52,479
we're also witnessing a phenomenon in

4144
02:29:57,429 --> 02:29:55,120
on our planet which is inexplicable

4145
02:29:58,630 --> 02:29:57,439
it is not matching known human

4146
02:30:00,070 --> 02:29:58,640
technology

4147
02:30:01,670 --> 02:30:00,080
so that's why i still think it's

4148
02:30:03,590 --> 02:30:01,680
possible that this might be black world

4149
02:30:05,670 --> 02:30:03,600
technology maybe we've cracked it maybe

4150
02:30:08,389 --> 02:30:05,680
when we went black with anti-gravity in

4151
02:30:09,510 --> 02:30:08,399
the 1950s and the 1960s we really did

4152
02:30:11,510 --> 02:30:09,520
crack it

4153
02:30:13,190 --> 02:30:11,520
i don't know

4154
02:30:15,670 --> 02:30:13,200
i just don't know so i mean have you

4155
02:30:17,670 --> 02:30:15,680
spoken to salvador

4156
02:30:19,349 --> 02:30:17,680
oh believe me i've tried

4157
02:30:20,550 --> 02:30:19,359
yeah i've tried it i i think the only

4158
02:30:22,070 --> 02:30:20,560
person who's been able to get a

4159
02:30:24,710 --> 02:30:22,080
communication going with him is brett

4160
02:30:26,230 --> 02:30:24,720
tingley from the drive the warzone

4161
02:30:28,389 --> 02:30:26,240
online blog

4162
02:30:30,950 --> 02:30:28,399
and he did a very good job brett to

4163
02:30:32,950 --> 02:30:30,960
secure that and uh salvatore pay

4164
02:30:34,550 --> 02:30:32,960
defended the validity of his patents and

4165
02:30:36,550 --> 02:30:34,560
asserted that his technology was

4166
02:30:38,790 --> 02:30:36,560
genuinely operable

4167
02:30:40,870 --> 02:30:38,800
uh but every physicist that i've spoken

4168
02:30:42,710 --> 02:30:40,880
to told me that it's complete pie in the

4169
02:30:44,550 --> 02:30:42,720
sky that

4170
02:30:47,270 --> 02:30:44,560
none of it's for real

4171
02:30:50,070 --> 02:30:47,280
now modern science has been wrong before

4172
02:30:51,590 --> 02:30:50,080
you know i think the the notion of an

4173
02:30:54,469 --> 02:30:51,600
incredible weapon that could split the

4174
02:30:56,790 --> 02:30:54,479
atom would have been inconceivable to

4175
02:30:58,309 --> 02:30:56,800
many scientists back in the 1940s and

4176
02:31:01,270 --> 02:30:58,319
yet we were working on it in secret in

4177
02:31:03,349 --> 02:31:01,280
the manhattan project

4178
02:31:06,870 --> 02:31:03,359
project unity wants me to ask you about

4179
02:31:11,030 --> 02:31:08,870
good on uh good on project unity it's a

4180
02:31:12,550 --> 02:31:11,040
great site um

4181
02:31:14,870 --> 02:31:12,560
nat cobits

4182
02:31:17,750 --> 02:31:14,880
who became a very solid friend of mine

4183
02:31:20,469 --> 02:31:17,760
was the director of science technology

4184
02:31:22,550 --> 02:31:20,479
development for the us navy

4185
02:31:25,349 --> 02:31:22,560
uh sadly he was one of the people i

4186
02:31:26,790 --> 02:31:25,359
wrote to and i honestly in my dreams

4187
02:31:29,270 --> 02:31:26,800
would never have expected that somebody

4188
02:31:32,070 --> 02:31:29,280
with his seniority would

4189
02:31:35,349 --> 02:31:32,080
write back but one day out of the blue

4190
02:31:37,030 --> 02:31:35,359
he just literally contacted me and

4191
02:31:39,750 --> 02:31:37,040
we started having conversations and we

4192
02:31:41,270 --> 02:31:39,760
spoke for quite a while

4193
02:31:43,190 --> 02:31:41,280
but it was obvious to me that he was

4194
02:31:44,710 --> 02:31:43,200
dying he had cancer and his family

4195
02:31:46,550 --> 02:31:44,720
explained to me that he had terminal

4196
02:31:48,389 --> 02:31:46,560
cancer

4197
02:31:51,750 --> 02:31:48,399
and i think that affected his

4198
02:31:55,190 --> 02:31:53,190
what he discussed

4199
02:31:57,190 --> 02:31:55,200
because there came a time when i asked

4200
02:31:59,750 --> 02:31:57,200
him that

4201
02:32:01,750 --> 02:31:59,760
were you ever read into were you of a

4202
02:32:03,270 --> 02:32:01,760
security briefed

4203
02:32:04,550 --> 02:32:03,280
into

4204
02:32:05,830 --> 02:32:04,560
alleged

4205
02:32:07,510 --> 02:32:05,840
alien

4206
02:32:10,389 --> 02:32:07,520
craft retrieval

4207
02:32:11,670 --> 02:32:10,399
back engineering programs

4208
02:32:13,110 --> 02:32:11,680
and it's funny because i was just

4209
02:32:15,270 --> 02:32:13,120
getting ready to move on because there

4210
02:32:18,070 --> 02:32:15,280
was a pause you know i you know it was a

4211
02:32:19,670 --> 02:32:18,080
big pregnant silence

4212
02:32:20,710 --> 02:32:19,680
and then all of a sudden he came back

4213
02:32:23,590 --> 02:32:20,720
and said

4214
02:32:27,990 --> 02:32:24,950
but i was never read out of it so

4215
02:32:30,070 --> 02:32:28,000
there's not much i can say

4216
02:32:32,550 --> 02:32:30,080
and

4217
02:32:34,710 --> 02:32:32,560
so began the most extraordinary

4218
02:32:36,830 --> 02:32:34,720
period of discussions a lot of which i a

4219
02:32:39,190 --> 02:32:36,840
lot of which i haven't put in the book

4220
02:32:40,870 --> 02:32:39,200
because i don't think i have any right

4221
02:32:42,070 --> 02:32:40,880
to but

4222
02:32:44,870 --> 02:32:42,080
he

4223
02:32:47,270 --> 02:32:44,880
introduced me to a wide range of people

4224
02:32:51,670 --> 02:32:50,309
asserted that they were aware of

4225
02:32:53,910 --> 02:32:51,680
the program

4226
02:32:56,550 --> 02:32:53,920
nat had never personally seen these

4227
02:32:58,550 --> 02:32:56,560
quote multiple craft himself

4228
02:33:00,630 --> 02:32:58,560
but because of who he was he was

4229
02:33:04,389 --> 02:33:00,640
essentially the chief research geek for

4230
02:33:06,790 --> 02:33:04,399
the us navy he was read into them

4231
02:33:08,710 --> 02:33:06,800
and uh he

4232
02:33:10,469 --> 02:33:08,720
he did tell me that on one occasion

4233
02:33:12,950 --> 02:33:10,479
after he'd left the navy when he was

4234
02:33:15,429 --> 02:33:12,960
working in his private company in k

4235
02:33:17,670 --> 02:33:15,439
associates nka

4236
02:33:21,030 --> 02:33:17,680
he was an expert in a type of welding

4237
02:33:22,230 --> 02:33:21,040
called electron beam welding

4238
02:33:24,950 --> 02:33:22,240
ebw

4239
02:33:28,630 --> 02:33:24,960
which is a type of welding

4240
02:33:31,110 --> 02:33:28,640
for bonding two different types of metal

4241
02:33:32,230 --> 02:33:31,120
and very very high strength apparently

4242
02:33:34,309 --> 02:33:32,240
they do the under they do the

4243
02:33:36,710 --> 02:33:34,319
undercarriage for the c5 galaxy for

4244
02:33:37,990 --> 02:33:36,720
example that was his speciality bonding

4245
02:33:41,110 --> 02:33:38,000
metals

4246
02:33:43,429 --> 02:33:41,120
and uh he got a phone call from

4247
02:33:44,710 --> 02:33:43,439
what you and i would know as the foreign

4248
02:33:46,230 --> 02:33:44,720
technology division of the wright

4249
02:33:49,429 --> 02:33:46,240
patterson air force base you know the

4250
02:33:52,469 --> 02:33:49,439
apocryphal car park for ufos

4251
02:33:54,230 --> 02:33:52,479
and um he was flown to right pat and

4252
02:33:57,190 --> 02:33:54,240
taken into a secure

4253
02:33:58,309 --> 02:33:57,200
area and he told me that he was shown

4254
02:35:34,150 --> 02:33:58,319
a

4255
02:35:35,510 --> 02:35:34,160
kindly

4256
02:35:38,230 --> 02:35:35,520
graciously

4257
02:35:41,590 --> 02:35:38,240
facilitated introductions for me to

4258
02:35:42,469 --> 02:35:41,600
other people who are the primary sources

4259
02:35:45,830 --> 02:35:42,479
that

4260
02:35:48,230 --> 02:35:45,840
i've developed an opinion

4261
02:35:50,070 --> 02:35:48,240
based on what they told me

4262
02:35:52,309 --> 02:35:50,080
and they are the people who then went on

4263
02:35:54,550 --> 02:35:52,319
to talk about the existence of an

4264
02:35:58,309 --> 02:35:54,560
ongoing back engineering program

4265
02:36:00,150 --> 02:35:58,319
involving multiple craft

4266
02:36:02,550 --> 02:36:00,160
and i still

4267
02:36:04,550 --> 02:36:02,560
shake my head when i say that because it

4268
02:36:06,710 --> 02:36:04,560
just seems incomprehensible to me as an

4269
02:36:08,630 --> 02:36:06,720
investigative journalist

4270
02:36:10,150 --> 02:36:08,640
with some reputation i'm even talking

4271
02:36:12,150 --> 02:36:10,160
about this stuff because i'm worried

4272
02:36:14,469 --> 02:36:12,160
about being ridiculed or

4273
02:36:15,270 --> 02:36:14,479
attacked for even saying it

4274
02:36:18,550 --> 02:36:15,280
but

4275
02:36:20,469 --> 02:36:18,560
ultimately i'm using the same objective

4276
02:36:23,190 --> 02:36:20,479
fact testing that i use as a journalist

4277
02:36:23,990 --> 02:36:23,200
with any other story and i'm inexorably

4278
02:36:27,030 --> 02:36:24,000
led

4279
02:36:29,910 --> 02:36:27,040
to a conclusion that prima facie on the

4280
02:36:34,830 --> 02:36:29,920
facts i have a suspicion that the united

4281
02:36:38,309 --> 02:36:36,630
craft

4282
02:36:40,469 --> 02:36:38,319
and especially when you look at the

4283
02:36:44,150 --> 02:36:40,479
context of comments made by people good

4284
02:36:45,590 --> 02:36:44,160
people like dr eric davis

4285
02:36:47,910 --> 02:36:45,600
and others

4286
02:36:49,590 --> 02:36:47,920
including senator harry reid who's kind

4287
02:36:51,110 --> 02:36:49,600
of wavered a bit from time to time

4288
02:36:52,870 --> 02:36:51,120
because i think he's been reminded of a

4289
02:36:55,030 --> 02:36:52,880
security oaths as a member of the gang

4290
02:36:57,110 --> 02:36:55,040
of eight

4291
02:36:59,590 --> 02:36:57,120
something's going on

4292
02:37:02,469 --> 02:36:59,600
you know i'm not satisfied that we don't

4293
02:37:05,190 --> 02:37:02,479
have i can't rule out

4294
02:37:06,630 --> 02:37:05,200
that we have this technology or the

4295
02:37:08,790 --> 02:37:06,640
americans have got this technology

4296
02:37:11,110 --> 02:37:08,800
hidden somewhere in a basement

4297
02:37:13,750 --> 02:37:11,120
and i find it mind-boggling that

4298
02:37:16,870 --> 02:37:13,760
defense aerospace national security

4299
02:37:18,950 --> 02:37:16,880
reporters aren't asking the question

4300
02:37:21,349 --> 02:37:18,960
and i noticed in the period coming up to

4301
02:37:23,670 --> 02:37:21,359
the uap task force report

4302
02:37:25,110 --> 02:37:23,680
you might be able to find it on the web

4303
02:37:27,190 --> 02:37:25,120
there was one

4304
02:37:29,510 --> 02:37:27,200
very enterprising journalist who

4305
02:37:32,150 --> 02:37:29,520
unusually had the call at the pentagon

4306
02:37:34,150 --> 02:37:32,160
press briefing to actually ask is the

4307
02:37:36,550 --> 02:37:34,160
u.s i think the question was you know is

4308
02:37:39,429 --> 02:37:36,560
the u.s hiding alien spacecraft you know

4309
02:37:40,790 --> 02:37:39,439
do you have recovered alien spacecraft

4310
02:37:42,550 --> 02:37:40,800
and rather than answer the question

4311
02:37:44,230 --> 02:37:42,560
rather than just dismiss it parentally

4312
02:37:45,190 --> 02:37:44,240
as you would expect a pentagon spokesman

4313
02:37:47,030 --> 02:37:45,200
to do

4314
02:37:49,349 --> 02:37:47,040
what really struck me

4315
02:37:50,550 --> 02:37:49,359
was how he just avoided the question

4316
02:37:53,429 --> 02:37:50,560
and said we'll have to wait for the

4317
02:37:55,510 --> 02:37:53,439
findings of the uap task force

4318
02:37:58,070 --> 02:37:55,520
really interesting

4319
02:38:00,389 --> 02:37:58,080
and you've got to also see that in the

4320
02:38:01,990 --> 02:38:00,399
context of comments that have been made

4321
02:38:04,710 --> 02:38:02,000
by people like

4322
02:38:06,710 --> 02:38:04,720
donald trump i mean you know frankly

4323
02:38:08,550 --> 02:38:06,720
as far as i can see trump was completely

4324
02:38:10,150 --> 02:38:08,560
open about most things in his government

4325
02:38:11,830 --> 02:38:10,160
and there was a really revealing

4326
02:38:14,469 --> 02:38:11,840
interview that he did

4327
02:38:17,190 --> 02:38:14,479
with donald trump jr his son

4328
02:38:19,270 --> 02:38:17,200
in the months running up to the

4329
02:38:22,070 --> 02:38:19,280
election

4330
02:38:23,910 --> 02:38:22,080
and don junior asked his father

4331
02:38:25,590 --> 02:38:23,920
so dad you know a lot of us want to know

4332
02:38:27,590 --> 02:38:25,600
you know what about what about roswell

4333
02:38:30,309 --> 02:38:27,600
you know what there's all these claims

4334
02:38:31,670 --> 02:38:30,319
about alien craft and stuff like that

4335
02:38:34,710 --> 02:38:31,680
you would expect the president of the

4336
02:38:37,670 --> 02:38:34,720
united states to go ah come on sonia

4337
02:38:40,630 --> 02:38:37,680
don't worry my time with that bs

4338
02:38:42,389 --> 02:38:40,640
but no trump gave it currency he gave it

4339
02:38:44,309 --> 02:38:42,399
validity he said that's a very

4340
02:38:45,670 --> 02:38:44,319
interesting story

4341
02:38:48,710 --> 02:38:45,680
and he acknowledged that he'd like to

4342
02:38:52,550 --> 02:38:48,720
reveal more about that

4343
02:38:58,790 --> 02:38:54,870
okay this question comes from dom to

4344
02:39:02,550 --> 02:39:00,469
what have you heard from a credible

4345
02:39:04,230 --> 02:39:02,560
source that was too incredible for you

4346
02:39:05,750 --> 02:39:04,240
to make the leap and include it in your

4347
02:39:08,070 --> 02:39:05,760
book

4348
02:39:09,990 --> 02:39:08,080
uh i'm not gonna go there i got into

4349
02:39:11,429 --> 02:39:10,000
trouble just the other day for for

4350
02:39:13,270 --> 02:39:11,439
reporting something that i've been told

4351
02:39:14,790 --> 02:39:13,280
by somebody about

4352
02:39:16,070 --> 02:39:14,800
the us using

4353
02:39:19,030 --> 02:39:16,080
its knowledge of

4354
02:39:21,510 --> 02:39:19,040
craft frequencies to bring down craft

4355
02:39:23,429 --> 02:39:21,520
and uh i got bollocks for that so i'm

4356
02:39:25,030 --> 02:39:23,439
not gonna go there i'm sorry i do know

4357
02:39:27,830 --> 02:39:25,040
some pretty amazing things and i've been

4358
02:39:30,630 --> 02:39:27,840
told some amazing things but frankly i'm

4359
02:39:31,510 --> 02:39:30,640
i'm um i'm feeling the sting right now

4360
02:39:34,469 --> 02:39:31,520
of

4361
02:39:36,389 --> 02:39:34,479
ufo twitter that frankly doesn't seem to

4362
02:39:38,150 --> 02:39:36,399
understand that when people are talking

4363
02:39:39,910 --> 02:39:38,160
about things that they've been told by

4364
02:39:41,830 --> 02:39:39,920
people it doesn't necessarily mean that

4365
02:39:45,670 --> 02:39:41,840
i'm saying it's for real

4366
02:39:49,110 --> 02:39:45,680
so um yeah frankly uh

4367
02:39:53,910 --> 02:39:51,990
for roz delaware wants or delaware wants

4368
02:39:57,190 --> 02:39:53,920
to know what does ross know about the

4369
02:40:01,429 --> 02:39:57,200
majestic 12 the majestic 12 and secret

4370
02:40:04,230 --> 02:40:02,790
i just don't know

4371
02:40:08,150 --> 02:40:04,240
i mean i've like everybody i've read

4372
02:40:10,469 --> 02:40:08,160
about the mj 12 claims

4373
02:40:13,670 --> 02:40:10,479
one of the things that

4374
02:40:15,910 --> 02:40:13,680
fascinates me is

4375
02:40:18,150 --> 02:40:15,920
if there is

4376
02:40:20,150 --> 02:40:18,160
a secret being kept

4377
02:40:21,910 --> 02:40:20,160
and if there are a group of people in

4378
02:40:24,230 --> 02:40:21,920
the u.s government that are keeping the

4379
02:40:26,309 --> 02:40:24,240
secret

4380
02:40:28,230 --> 02:40:26,319
and i think there is

4381
02:40:29,750 --> 02:40:28,240
then somebody is somebody is obviously

4382
02:40:31,670 --> 02:40:29,760
running a uh

4383
02:40:33,750 --> 02:40:31,680
a disinformation effort somebody is

4384
02:40:34,710 --> 02:40:33,760
obviously coordinating who gets told

4385
02:40:36,389 --> 02:40:34,720
what

4386
02:40:37,510 --> 02:40:36,399
somebody's running it

4387
02:40:39,750 --> 02:40:37,520
um

4388
02:40:42,950 --> 02:40:39,760
i don't think it's called mj-12 the most

4389
02:40:44,070 --> 02:40:42,960
recent iteration i was told was zodiac

4390
02:40:46,389 --> 02:40:44,080
but

4391
02:40:48,389 --> 02:40:46,399
again i think that's been overtaken by

4392
02:40:49,880 --> 02:40:48,399
events as well because that name became

4393
02:40:51,110 --> 02:40:49,890
public

4394
02:40:53,670 --> 02:40:51,120
[Music]

4395
02:40:55,910 --> 02:40:53,680
there must be people in positions of

4396
02:40:58,790 --> 02:40:55,920
power in the united states government

4397
02:41:00,550 --> 02:40:58,800
who are briefed into the program if the

4398
02:41:04,230 --> 02:41:00,560
program exists

4399
02:41:06,070 --> 02:41:04,240
um

4400
02:41:08,230 --> 02:41:06,080
but certainly

4401
02:41:09,429 --> 02:41:08,240
i am more than happy to say that i think

4402
02:41:10,950 --> 02:41:09,439
that there are people in the u.s

4403
02:41:13,910 --> 02:41:10,960
government who know a lot more than

4404
02:41:15,990 --> 02:41:13,920
they're letting on about the phenomenon

4405
02:41:18,309 --> 02:41:16,000
and yes there is a group that is

4406
02:41:20,870 --> 02:41:18,319
coordinating what we're told about that

4407
02:41:22,790 --> 02:41:20,880
and uh i guess i can understand that to

4408
02:41:24,469 --> 02:41:22,800
some degree you know you wouldn't if

4409
02:41:26,870 --> 02:41:24,479
it's a matter of national security you'd

4410
02:41:29,750 --> 02:41:26,880
want to guard it quite carefully

4411
02:41:32,230 --> 02:41:29,760
but is there a sinister body that is

4412
02:41:33,750 --> 02:41:32,240
controlling what we know for nefarious

4413
02:41:35,269 --> 02:41:33,760
reasons

4414
02:41:37,830 --> 02:41:35,279
god i hope not

4415
02:41:40,790 --> 02:41:37,840
i mean i one thing i love about

4416
02:41:42,950 --> 02:41:40,800
america is that for all of its faults

4417
02:41:46,870 --> 02:41:42,960
there's still a streak of moral decency

4418
02:41:50,389 --> 02:41:48,550
its government you know it has

4419
02:41:52,469 --> 02:41:50,399
principles constitutional principles

4420
02:41:53,990 --> 02:41:52,479
that it holds dear at least to pay slip

4421
02:41:54,790 --> 02:41:54,000
service to

4422
02:41:57,750 --> 02:41:54,800
i mean

4423
02:41:59,590 --> 02:41:57,760
god forbid if this technology exists god

4424
02:42:01,750 --> 02:41:59,600
forbid that it falls into the hands of

4425
02:42:03,349 --> 02:42:01,760
authoritarian dictatorships like russia

4426
02:42:04,309 --> 02:42:03,359
or china

4427
02:42:06,870 --> 02:42:04,319
i mean

4428
02:42:08,469 --> 02:42:06,880
if there is technology or information

4429
02:42:11,030 --> 02:42:08,479
that the world is on the cusp of

4430
02:42:12,710 --> 02:42:11,040
learning i hope it's done

4431
02:42:14,630 --> 02:42:12,720
through the auspices of a democratic

4432
02:42:17,190 --> 02:42:14,640
country that has respect for individual

4433
02:42:19,990 --> 02:42:17,200
human rights and liberty

4434
02:42:21,190 --> 02:42:20,000
because you wouldn't want technologies

4435
02:42:23,670 --> 02:42:21,200
that

4436
02:42:26,469 --> 02:42:23,680
have been described to me and

4437
02:42:30,150 --> 02:42:26,479
of which we're now aware in the hands of

4438
02:42:35,830 --> 02:42:34,150
question to ross from euphoric gir 4674

4439
02:42:37,510 --> 02:42:35,840
as a journalist who understands we

4440
02:42:39,349 --> 02:42:37,520
didn't get all these names so i'm gonna

4441
02:42:40,520 --> 02:42:39,359
have to change my name my name is far

4442
02:42:42,630 --> 02:42:40,530
too boring this is

4443
02:42:43,750 --> 02:42:42,640
[Laughter]

4444
02:42:45,590 --> 02:42:43,760
sorry

4445
02:42:48,070 --> 02:42:45,600
question to ross as a journalist who

4446
02:42:49,830 --> 02:42:48,080
understands the news cycle and you know

4447
02:42:52,230 --> 02:42:49,840
that the general public jumps from topic

4448
02:42:53,190 --> 02:42:52,240
to topic what can we

4449
02:42:54,950 --> 02:42:53,200
do

4450
02:42:56,870 --> 02:42:54,960
i'm assuming he means as the public as

4451
02:42:58,870 --> 02:42:56,880
the people watching this what can we do

4452
02:43:00,870 --> 02:42:58,880
to keep the ufo story in the headlines

4453
02:43:03,190 --> 02:43:00,880
until the truth comes out in other words

4454
02:43:05,510 --> 02:43:03,200
how do we not lose the momentum on this

4455
02:43:08,550 --> 02:43:05,520
topic

4456
02:43:11,190 --> 02:43:08,560
oh boy that's a really good question i

4457
02:43:13,349 --> 02:43:11,200
don't think people out there realize how

4458
02:43:14,710 --> 02:43:13,359
powerful they are

4459
02:43:16,950 --> 02:43:14,720
i mean really

4460
02:43:19,510 --> 02:43:16,960
i've i've sat in the offices of

4461
02:43:22,469 --> 02:43:19,520
ministers of government and seen how

4462
02:43:23,429 --> 02:43:22,479
they overreact to a dozen letters on an

4463
02:43:26,309 --> 02:43:23,439
issue

4464
02:43:27,750 --> 02:43:26,319
you know ministers staffers panic when

4465
02:43:30,550 --> 02:43:27,760
they get letters

4466
02:43:32,710 --> 02:43:30,560
a good old-fashioned handwritten typed

4467
02:43:36,309 --> 02:43:32,720
letter that says i want you to

4468
02:43:37,910 --> 02:43:36,319
investigate blah i'm a i'm a voter i i

4469
02:43:39,429 --> 02:43:37,920
influence a large number of people in

4470
02:43:41,429 --> 02:43:39,439
the electorate that i'm in which just so

4471
02:43:42,950 --> 02:43:41,439
happens to be a marginal electorate i

4472
02:43:44,710 --> 02:43:42,960
want you to do something about this you

4473
02:43:47,030 --> 02:43:44,720
know you're my political representative

4474
02:43:49,349 --> 02:43:47,040
act do something now

4475
02:43:51,190 --> 02:43:49,359
and so i really think the simplest thing

4476
02:43:53,269 --> 02:43:51,200
that people can do is let their

4477
02:43:55,269 --> 02:43:53,279
political representatives know that this

4478
02:43:57,030 --> 02:43:55,279
issue matters to them

4479
02:43:59,990 --> 02:43:57,040
i mean i you know you've got elections

4480
02:44:01,990 --> 02:44:00,000
at the moment in canada uh and at the

4481
02:44:04,790 --> 02:44:02,000
moment the big question is will trudeau

4482
02:44:06,790 --> 02:44:04,800
survive government why aren't people

4483
02:44:09,030 --> 02:44:06,800
asking him on the campaign trail mr

4484
02:44:11,269 --> 02:44:09,040
prime minister have you been read into

4485
02:44:13,349 --> 02:44:11,279
anything pertaining to uaps why isn't

4486
02:44:14,790 --> 02:44:13,359
the legitimate question when the united

4487
02:44:16,630 --> 02:44:14,800
states government has admitted that the

4488
02:44:18,790 --> 02:44:16,640
phenomenon is real

4489
02:44:21,510 --> 02:44:18,800
you know what's the cognitive dissonance

4490
02:44:23,349 --> 02:44:21,520
here that means that even though the

4491
02:44:24,950 --> 02:44:23,359
pentagon has now acknowledged the

4492
02:44:27,349 --> 02:44:24,960
phenomenon is real

4493
02:44:28,630 --> 02:44:27,359
it cannot explain prosaically this

4494
02:44:30,630 --> 02:44:28,640
phenomenon

4495
02:44:32,469 --> 02:44:30,640
the mainstream media still to a large

4496
02:44:33,910 --> 02:44:32,479
degree treat it with a ridicule and

4497
02:44:36,389 --> 02:44:33,920
contempt

4498
02:44:38,630 --> 02:44:36,399
kind of a taboo and stigma

4499
02:44:41,510 --> 02:44:38,640
it has to change and

4500
02:44:43,429 --> 02:44:41,520
ultimately what people need to do is

4501
02:44:44,790 --> 02:44:43,439
get on the blower but don't do it in a

4502
02:44:47,349 --> 02:44:44,800
nutty way

4503
02:44:49,030 --> 02:44:47,359
you know say to a journalist excuse me

4504
02:44:50,950 --> 02:44:49,040
you're the national security writer for

4505
02:44:53,190 --> 02:44:50,960
the globe and mail or the national

4506
02:44:55,590 --> 02:44:53,200
security writer for the new york times

4507
02:44:57,429 --> 02:44:55,600
um why did you pooh-pooh the whole issue

4508
02:44:58,870 --> 02:44:57,439
of ufos and that article you wrote the

4509
02:45:00,550 --> 02:44:58,880
other day you know why are you not

4510
02:45:01,750 --> 02:45:00,560
taking it seriously when the us

4511
02:45:03,590 --> 02:45:01,760
government is

4512
02:45:05,190 --> 02:45:03,600
you know are you aware of this issue

4513
02:45:07,110 --> 02:45:05,200
this issue and this issue that

4514
02:45:09,190 --> 02:45:07,120
legitimizes why this is a legitimate

4515
02:45:10,870 --> 02:45:09,200
area for investigation

4516
02:45:13,190 --> 02:45:10,880
hey have you read the book in plain

4517
02:45:15,429 --> 02:45:13,200
sight by ross coulthard

4518
02:45:17,670 --> 02:45:15,439
but um more importantly the other thing

4519
02:45:19,990 --> 02:45:17,680
you can do is

4520
02:45:22,630 --> 02:45:20,000
get on the blower or write actually

4521
02:45:24,630 --> 02:45:22,640
writing's really important a physical

4522
02:45:26,070 --> 02:45:24,640
letter makes a huge difference it could

4523
02:45:29,510 --> 02:45:26,080
be type of statement but as long as it's

4524
02:45:31,590 --> 02:45:29,520
print types yeah people should just get

4525
02:45:33,349 --> 02:45:31,600
on their typewriter and write well what

4526
02:45:36,070 --> 02:45:33,359
do they use these days their laptop and

4527
02:45:38,710 --> 02:45:37,590
i grew up in journalism when you

4528
02:45:41,030 --> 02:45:38,720
actually did

4529
02:45:43,190 --> 02:45:41,040
carbons this is how old i am you wrote

4530
02:45:45,190 --> 02:45:43,200
carbons of your story and so i have to

4531
02:45:47,510 --> 02:45:45,200
have four bits of carbon paper and then

4532
02:45:50,469 --> 02:45:47,520
type on a typewriter of my story and

4533
02:45:52,150 --> 02:45:50,479
then i'd put a pin through the paper

4534
02:45:53,349 --> 02:45:52,160
and send different copies off to

4535
02:45:55,190 --> 02:45:53,359
different editors that's how we

4536
02:45:56,469 --> 02:45:55,200
circulated stories

4537
02:45:58,150 --> 02:45:56,479
and um

4538
02:45:59,990 --> 02:45:58,160
you know it's amazing these days because

4539
02:46:02,150 --> 02:46:00,000
we now live in a in an

4540
02:46:03,349 --> 02:46:02,160
age where it's very easy to distribute

4541
02:46:05,590 --> 02:46:03,359
information

4542
02:46:08,070 --> 02:46:05,600
but that old-fashioned way of

4543
02:46:10,469 --> 02:46:08,080
distributing information in a letter i

4544
02:46:12,550 --> 02:46:10,479
found it an extraordinarily powerful

4545
02:46:14,150 --> 02:46:12,560
research tool when i was writing my book

4546
02:46:17,030 --> 02:46:14,160
because it was a way of

4547
02:46:20,070 --> 02:46:17,040
protecting sources because snail mail to

4548
02:46:21,990 --> 02:46:20,080
a large degree is not intercepted still

4549
02:46:22,950 --> 02:46:22,000
it is intercepted sometimes but not as

4550
02:46:25,269 --> 02:46:22,960
much as

4551
02:46:26,710 --> 02:46:25,279
emails or other forms of electronic

4552
02:46:27,830 --> 02:46:26,720
communication

4553
02:46:30,070 --> 02:46:27,840
and so

4554
02:46:31,750 --> 02:46:30,080
there's enormous power in writing a

4555
02:46:33,750 --> 02:46:31,760
letter to a minister of government

4556
02:46:34,710 --> 02:46:33,760
saying

4557
02:46:36,630 --> 02:46:34,720
what

4558
02:46:38,710 --> 02:46:36,640
or even you know for example if you're a

4559
02:46:40,630 --> 02:46:38,720
tv reporter or

4560
02:46:42,870 --> 02:46:40,640
just an activist journalist

4561
02:46:45,030 --> 02:46:42,880
politely you know don't be nasty about

4562
02:46:47,190 --> 02:46:45,040
it respectfully i found the best way is

4563
02:46:49,269 --> 02:46:47,200
to be respectful and honorable to people

4564
02:46:51,349 --> 02:46:49,279
and give them a break

4565
02:46:53,349 --> 02:46:51,359
you know get a camera next time you know

4566
02:46:56,469 --> 02:46:53,359
hillary clinton somewhere say oh this is

4567
02:46:58,790 --> 02:46:56,479
clinton hi my name's joe blogs i'm a

4568
02:47:00,309 --> 02:46:58,800
citizen podcast activist interested in

4569
02:47:02,309 --> 02:47:00,319
ufos

4570
02:47:04,550 --> 02:47:02,319
she might start walking away can i ask

4571
02:47:07,030 --> 02:47:04,560
you what you were talking to

4572
02:47:08,790 --> 02:47:07,040
john podesta about in 2016.

4573
02:47:11,190 --> 02:47:08,800
you know what were you talking about

4574
02:47:12,469 --> 02:47:11,200
when you said in in this email blah blah

4575
02:47:14,230 --> 02:47:12,479
blah blah blah

4576
02:47:16,550 --> 02:47:14,240
you know people need to ask the nuts and

4577
02:47:19,830 --> 02:47:16,560
bolts questions we need to drill down

4578
02:47:22,309 --> 02:47:19,840
and actually do some serious research

4579
02:47:25,429 --> 02:47:22,319
for example just the other day i am i've

4580
02:47:27,349 --> 02:47:25,439
written a letter to a guy who

4581
02:47:30,469 --> 02:47:27,359
claims in a book

4582
02:47:32,830 --> 02:47:30,479
that jfk wrote a memo on the 12th of

4583
02:47:38,150 --> 02:47:32,840
november

4584
02:47:39,429 --> 02:47:38,160
1963 that asked the director of the cia

4585
02:47:40,469 --> 02:47:39,439
to

4586
02:47:43,429 --> 02:47:40,479
collate

4587
02:47:44,950 --> 02:47:43,439
ufo information that was sensitive for

4588
02:47:46,870 --> 02:47:44,960
national security so that it could be

4589
02:47:49,030 --> 02:47:46,880
shared with the russians

4590
02:47:51,429 --> 02:47:49,040
now i hasten to wear

4591
02:47:53,349 --> 02:47:51,439
he claimed the writer claims that he'd

4592
02:47:55,990 --> 02:47:53,359
obtained that memo on freedom of

4593
02:47:57,269 --> 02:47:56,000
information from the cia

4594
02:47:59,110 --> 02:47:57,279
and there was an article that was

4595
02:48:00,830 --> 02:47:59,120
published in the media that said

4596
02:48:03,590 --> 02:48:00,840
immediately

4597
02:48:05,510 --> 02:48:03,600
that the provenance of that memo was in

4598
02:48:07,510 --> 02:48:05,520
question because when they checked at

4599
02:48:08,790 --> 02:48:07,520
the jfk library they couldn't find any

4600
02:48:10,469 --> 02:48:08,800
such memo

4601
02:48:11,750 --> 02:48:10,479
and so you were left at the end of all

4602
02:48:13,510 --> 02:48:11,760
of the articles that were published

4603
02:48:15,309 --> 02:48:13,520
about this guy's book with the

4604
02:48:18,230 --> 02:48:15,319
impression that that 12th of november

4605
02:48:20,389 --> 02:48:18,240
1963 memo was a fake it was a hoax

4606
02:48:22,950 --> 02:48:20,399
either he was hoaxed or you know

4607
02:48:25,510 --> 02:48:22,960
somebody had done it

4608
02:48:27,990 --> 02:48:25,520
so i thought back at this i want to know

4609
02:48:30,630 --> 02:48:28,000
so i tracked down the guy last night and

4610
02:48:32,630 --> 02:48:30,640
i've emailed him and i've if i don't

4611
02:48:34,070 --> 02:48:32,640
hear from him i'll post him a letter but

4612
02:48:35,830 --> 02:48:34,080
i want to know i want to ring him and

4613
02:48:38,070 --> 02:48:35,840
find out what the hell's going on what's

4614
02:48:40,230 --> 02:48:38,080
the truth of that claim did he actually

4615
02:48:41,510 --> 02:48:40,240
foi and did he obtain that document on

4616
02:48:43,750 --> 02:48:41,520
foi

4617
02:48:45,910 --> 02:48:43,760
and if i can find out that he did obtain

4618
02:48:47,910 --> 02:48:45,920
that documentation on foi

4619
02:48:49,349 --> 02:48:47,920
why then were all these articles written

4620
02:48:51,429 --> 02:48:49,359
in the media

4621
02:48:52,790 --> 02:48:51,439
asserting that it couldn't be a real

4622
02:48:54,550 --> 02:48:52,800
document

4623
02:48:56,309 --> 02:48:54,560
who instigated those articles was it

4624
02:48:57,830 --> 02:48:56,319
disinformation

4625
02:48:59,429 --> 02:48:57,840
so that's the way my brain works you

4626
02:49:02,790 --> 02:48:59,439
know i'm an investigative journalist and

4627
02:49:05,670 --> 02:49:02,800
so i don't take any fact for granted i

4628
02:49:07,830 --> 02:49:05,680
have to test those facts and and verify

4629
02:49:09,670 --> 02:49:07,840
verify them for myself

4630
02:49:11,190 --> 02:49:09,680
and um

4631
02:49:13,670 --> 02:49:11,200
that's where i'm at basically i'm

4632
02:49:16,070 --> 02:49:13,680
constantly checking things and so people

4633
02:49:17,269 --> 02:49:16,080
should do that so one of the things that

4634
02:49:19,349 --> 02:49:17,279
has come up a bit in today's

4635
02:49:22,070 --> 02:49:19,359
conversation is people have often said

4636
02:49:23,510 --> 02:49:22,080
you know what do you think about blah

4637
02:49:25,590 --> 02:49:23,520
and

4638
02:49:28,389 --> 02:49:25,600
a lot of that is unverifiable you know i

4639
02:49:30,469 --> 02:49:28,399
can't verify alien abductions or

4640
02:49:32,150 --> 02:49:30,479
experiences i can't

4641
02:49:33,510 --> 02:49:32,160
but if there are specific incidents like

4642
02:49:35,670 --> 02:49:33,520
you know one of the things that i have a

4643
02:49:38,070 --> 02:49:35,680
b in my bonnet about is the way that

4644
02:49:41,190 --> 02:49:38,080
nasa never responds have you noticed

4645
02:49:42,790 --> 02:49:41,200
this they never respond to those weird

4646
02:49:44,710 --> 02:49:42,800
shots there's one in particular that

4647
02:49:46,950 --> 02:49:44,720
gets my imagination going

4648
02:49:49,110 --> 02:49:46,960
of an object that's shot from the space

4649
02:49:51,110 --> 02:49:49,120
station or from a

4650
02:49:54,469 --> 02:49:51,120
spacecraft of some kind looking down on

4651
02:49:56,950 --> 02:49:54,479
the planet and what you see is an object

4652
02:49:59,030 --> 02:49:56,960
that's moving along and then a light

4653
02:50:00,710 --> 02:49:59,040
flashes from the planet below and

4654
02:50:02,230 --> 02:50:00,720
interestingly enough it's over north

4655
02:50:04,630 --> 02:50:02,240
western australia which is why i'm

4656
02:50:06,550 --> 02:50:04,640
interested in it and the object reacts

4657
02:50:07,590 --> 02:50:06,560
before the light hits it and then just

4658
02:50:09,429 --> 02:50:07,600
goes

4659
02:50:13,349 --> 02:50:09,439
and moves off

4660
02:50:16,070 --> 02:50:13,359
now i haven't seen i have what can i say

4661
02:50:18,309 --> 02:50:16,080
look it's in the in endless numbers of

4662
02:50:19,990 --> 02:50:18,319
nasa space objects i'm sure some of your

4663
02:50:21,349 --> 02:50:20,000
listeners will know about it before the

4664
02:50:22,630 --> 02:50:21,359
end of this conversation they will have

4665
02:50:25,750 --> 02:50:22,640
posted it

4666
02:50:27,910 --> 02:50:25,760
but it really does look amazing and so

4667
02:50:29,750 --> 02:50:27,920
i've approached nasa or i've approached

4668
02:50:31,830 --> 02:50:29,760
different space experts and i've said

4669
02:50:32,630 --> 02:50:31,840
can anybody explain this

4670
02:50:34,469 --> 02:50:32,640
now

4671
02:50:37,030 --> 02:50:34,479
because i'm not in america or i'm not

4672
02:50:39,110 --> 02:50:37,040
able to go to nasa archives i can't go

4673
02:50:41,990 --> 02:50:39,120
and verify

4674
02:50:43,910 --> 02:50:42,000
that particular piece of film from

4675
02:50:46,070 --> 02:50:43,920
i think it was the space shuttle

4676
02:50:48,309 --> 02:50:46,080
uh to see whether or not it really was

4677
02:50:49,590 --> 02:50:48,319
on that sts on that particular space

4678
02:50:51,670 --> 02:50:49,600
shuttle mission

4679
02:50:53,349 --> 02:50:51,680
but people need to do the work to

4680
02:50:56,469 --> 02:50:53,359
actually go okay

4681
02:50:59,190 --> 02:50:56,479
here is a potential mystery here's an

4682
02:51:01,830 --> 02:50:59,200
issue that can be investigated let's

4683
02:51:03,429 --> 02:51:01,840
drill down and test the provenance of

4684
02:51:04,950 --> 02:51:03,439
the claims that have been made about

4685
02:51:07,110 --> 02:51:04,960
this video

4686
02:51:11,910 --> 02:51:07,120
what if we can show that it is a real

4687
02:51:16,309 --> 02:51:13,830
then we go to a defence reporter on a

4688
02:51:17,990 --> 02:51:16,319
major national newspaper and we say okay

4689
02:51:19,510 --> 02:51:18,000
we've done the homework for you because

4690
02:51:21,670 --> 02:51:19,520
most of these reporters don't have the

4691
02:51:23,429 --> 02:51:21,680
time this is the reality from my time in

4692
02:51:25,510 --> 02:51:23,439
commercial television we're working in

4693
02:51:27,510 --> 02:51:25,520
freeway most of them don't have the time

4694
02:51:29,190 --> 02:51:27,520
to do this kind of grunt investigative

4695
02:51:31,190 --> 02:51:29,200
journalism

4696
02:51:33,670 --> 02:51:31,200
if you go to them and say hey listen

4697
02:51:35,269 --> 02:51:33,680
this is the work we've done we're a ufo

4698
02:51:37,030 --> 02:51:35,279
transparency group you may think we're

4699
02:51:39,510 --> 02:51:37,040
crazy but have a look at this these are

4700
02:51:42,150 --> 02:51:39,520
the source documents from nasa we've

4701
02:51:43,830 --> 02:51:42,160
gone to nasa's own archives this film

4702
02:51:46,309 --> 02:51:43,840
came from this

4703
02:51:49,429 --> 02:51:46,319
time period in this shuttle mission

4704
02:51:51,750 --> 02:51:49,439
here's the proof you can find it on this

4705
02:51:53,670 --> 02:51:51,760
file in this archival document on the

4706
02:51:55,349 --> 02:51:53,680
nas's files

4707
02:51:56,790 --> 02:51:55,359
look at it

4708
02:51:58,630 --> 02:51:56,800
what's that like what's that

4709
02:52:01,269 --> 02:51:58,640
objectivating what the hell's going on

4710
02:52:03,349 --> 02:52:01,279
here

4711
02:52:05,269 --> 02:52:03,359
you know the thing that irritates me is

4712
02:52:06,550 --> 02:52:05,279
the number of times things get posted

4713
02:52:08,070 --> 02:52:06,560
onto the web

4714
02:52:09,830 --> 02:52:08,080
by people who think they're doing the

4715
02:52:12,150 --> 02:52:09,840
right thing in ufology

4716
02:52:14,230 --> 02:52:12,160
and they haven't done the basic checks

4717
02:52:15,670 --> 02:52:14,240
before they put it up there and then

4718
02:52:18,230 --> 02:52:15,680
immediately what happens is somebody

4719
02:52:19,750 --> 02:52:18,240
just goes oh yeah that's

4720
02:52:21,510 --> 02:52:19,760
and it dies

4721
02:52:23,670 --> 02:52:21,520
dies on the vine

4722
02:52:24,870 --> 02:52:23,680
what people need to do is become

4723
02:52:27,030 --> 02:52:24,880
cleverer

4724
02:52:28,710 --> 02:52:27,040
they need to test the evidence first

4725
02:52:30,150 --> 02:52:28,720
before they put it up there and so

4726
02:52:32,790 --> 02:52:30,160
that's why frankly i have a lot of

4727
02:52:35,030 --> 02:52:32,800
trouble with the blurry videos of

4728
02:52:36,630 --> 02:52:35,040
distant objects that people endlessly

4729
02:52:38,550 --> 02:52:36,640
post on the web because they can be

4730
02:52:40,070 --> 02:52:38,560
faked so easily they're so useless

4731
02:52:42,389 --> 02:52:40,080
they're so helpless

4732
02:52:43,560 --> 02:52:42,399
but what if you can go back through

4733
02:52:44,790 --> 02:52:43,570
as i know you can

4734
02:52:46,469 --> 02:52:44,800
[Music]

4735
02:52:48,150 --> 02:52:46,479
and this is interesting edgar mitchell

4736
02:52:49,269 --> 02:52:48,160
sat on a couch with my friend the

4737
02:52:51,670 --> 02:52:49,279
spaceman

4738
02:52:53,269 --> 02:52:51,680
and showed him

4739
02:52:56,389 --> 02:52:53,279
the original

4740
02:52:57,910 --> 02:52:56,399
digitized nasa films of the lunar

4741
02:53:00,469 --> 02:52:57,920
landings

4742
02:53:03,269 --> 02:53:00,479
and pointed out to him things that he

4743
02:53:04,630 --> 02:53:03,279
edgar said were anomalous

4744
02:53:06,309 --> 02:53:04,640
and i've seen them i've sat there with

4745
02:53:08,630 --> 02:53:06,319
the spaceman and watched them and gone

4746
02:53:09,590 --> 02:53:08,640
he's right

4747
02:53:11,030 --> 02:53:09,600
and

4748
02:53:13,830 --> 02:53:11,040
this is the thing that really blows me

4749
02:53:15,750 --> 02:53:13,840
away is there could be a whole area of

4750
02:53:18,309 --> 02:53:15,760
ufo investigation that actually

4751
02:53:21,190 --> 02:53:18,319
seriously engages with the content that

4752
02:53:24,550 --> 02:53:21,200
nasa itself has broadcast

4753
02:53:26,309 --> 02:53:24,560
and when nasa refuses to answer go to

4754
02:53:28,230 --> 02:53:26,319
your congressman and say

4755
02:53:29,750 --> 02:53:28,240
sorry can we get a question posed please

4756
02:53:31,670 --> 02:53:29,760
at the senate armed services committee

4757
02:53:32,950 --> 02:53:31,680
or at the nasa oversight committee can

4758
02:53:34,389 --> 02:53:32,960
we get a question asked about why

4759
02:53:35,990 --> 02:53:34,399
they're refusing to answer questions

4760
02:53:36,870 --> 02:53:36,000
from citizens who are paying their tax

4761
02:53:39,030 --> 02:53:36,880
bill

4762
02:53:40,870 --> 02:53:39,040
because people forget these are publicly

4763
02:53:43,990 --> 02:53:40,880
funded organizations they are

4764
02:53:45,190 --> 02:53:44,000
accountable to you the public

4765
02:53:47,030 --> 02:53:45,200
you own them

4766
02:53:48,550 --> 02:53:47,040
they're yours they may not like

4767
02:53:51,030 --> 02:53:48,560
admitting that but they're your

4768
02:53:53,990 --> 02:53:51,040
institutions they have to be accountable

4769
02:53:55,990 --> 02:53:54,000
to you and one of the things that to me

4770
02:53:58,230 --> 02:53:56,000
just greats as a journalist is that

4771
02:53:59,349 --> 02:53:58,240
people don't understand their rights to

4772
02:54:01,030 --> 02:53:59,359
ask

4773
02:54:03,269 --> 02:54:01,040
they might refuse

4774
02:54:05,670 --> 02:54:03,279
but if they do refuse you put that up in

4775
02:54:08,150 --> 02:54:05,680
lights nasa has refused to answer a

4776
02:54:09,429 --> 02:54:08,160
reasonable question about x y and z

4777
02:54:11,110 --> 02:54:09,439
why

4778
02:54:12,710 --> 02:54:11,120
then you go to your next congressman and

4779
02:54:14,710 --> 02:54:12,720
you say well you're senator and you say

4780
02:54:17,110 --> 02:54:14,720
senator will you ask a question in the

4781
02:54:19,269 --> 02:54:17,120
federal congress about you know why

4782
02:54:21,429 --> 02:54:19,279
nasa's refusing to answer questions but

4783
02:54:23,110 --> 02:54:21,439
you turn it into a huge issue

4784
02:54:26,790 --> 02:54:23,120
i mean look at the momentum that was

4785
02:54:28,790 --> 02:54:26,800
developed for that stupid raid area 51

4786
02:54:30,469 --> 02:54:28,800
thing you know people people thought

4787
02:54:33,990 --> 02:54:30,479
right well remember that

4788
02:54:36,070 --> 02:54:34,000
yeah imagine if instead of raid area 51

4789
02:54:38,230 --> 02:54:36,080
it was

4790
02:54:40,309 --> 02:54:38,240
nasa tell the truth

4791
02:54:41,990 --> 02:54:40,319
you know explain these videos explain

4792
02:54:43,590 --> 02:54:42,000
the anomalies

4793
02:54:46,389 --> 02:54:43,600
imagine if there was a sensitive

4794
02:54:48,950 --> 02:54:46,399
scientist a sensible scientific

4795
02:54:51,269 --> 02:54:48,960
engagement with the anomalous objects

4796
02:54:52,309 --> 02:54:51,279
that have repeatedly been cited on nasa

4797
02:54:54,469 --> 02:54:52,319
missions

4798
02:54:57,830 --> 02:54:54,479
many of which nasa has

4799
02:55:01,429 --> 02:54:59,030
well we'll see if we can get that

4800
02:55:03,190 --> 02:55:01,439
popularized this hashtag nasa tell the

4801
02:55:05,269 --> 02:55:03,200
truth after

4802
02:55:07,269 --> 02:55:05,279
once this video is reposted

4803
02:55:08,630 --> 02:55:07,279
now kurt you've exhausted me mate so i

4804
02:55:10,469 --> 02:55:08,640
really don't know how much longer i can

4805
02:55:12,070 --> 02:55:10,479
go yeah okay well then how about let's

4806
02:55:13,190 --> 02:55:12,080
break it down into three steps for the

4807
02:55:15,349 --> 02:55:13,200
people who are watching just the

4808
02:55:17,910 --> 02:55:15,359
audience not journalists okay so what

4809
02:55:19,830 --> 02:55:17,920
should they do first search google for

4810
02:55:21,830 --> 02:55:19,840
local represent like what are they let's

4811
02:55:23,190 --> 02:55:21,840
break it down into three concrete steps

4812
02:55:24,469 --> 02:55:23,200
what do they do

4813
02:55:26,710 --> 02:55:24,479
okay

4814
02:55:28,070 --> 02:55:26,720
don't be insulting

4815
02:55:30,309 --> 02:55:28,080
political representatives are just going

4816
02:55:32,630 --> 02:55:30,319
to throw your letter in the mail if

4817
02:55:35,030 --> 02:55:32,640
you're rude or impolite or if you come

4818
02:55:38,710 --> 02:55:35,040
across as a crazy person

4819
02:55:42,230 --> 02:55:39,750
ask

4820
02:55:44,710 --> 02:55:42,240
don't just dash off a stupid email that

4821
02:55:47,110 --> 02:55:44,720
doesn't ask a question write a really

4822
02:55:48,469 --> 02:55:47,120
cleverly considered carefully written

4823
02:55:50,469 --> 02:55:48,479
letter

4824
02:55:53,670 --> 02:55:50,479
so for example let's just use as an

4825
02:55:55,590 --> 02:55:53,680
example than nasa objects

4826
02:55:58,630 --> 02:55:55,600
somebody needs to go to the nasa

4827
02:56:00,950 --> 02:55:58,640
archives and search those archives for

4828
02:56:02,469 --> 02:56:00,960
the film vision that is regularly posted

4829
02:56:04,469 --> 02:56:02,479
up on youtube saying you know where

4830
02:56:07,349 --> 02:56:04,479
somebody says hey look at this now

4831
02:56:10,150 --> 02:56:07,359
shuttle mission sts-16

4832
02:56:13,429 --> 02:56:10,160
at 21 minutes 30 there's a object that

4833
02:56:16,790 --> 02:56:13,439
does x y and z somebody needs to go and

4834
02:56:18,950 --> 02:56:16,800
prove that in the files and prove that

4835
02:56:20,550 --> 02:56:18,960
and get the actual data and write it all

4836
02:56:22,070 --> 02:56:20,560
out do the research so maybe there's

4837
02:56:24,150 --> 02:56:22,080
somebody here from florida who can go

4838
02:56:27,030 --> 02:56:24,160
and sit down in nasa and or in houston

4839
02:56:29,590 --> 02:56:27,040
or wherever it is do that research

4840
02:56:31,030 --> 02:56:29,600
collaborate

4841
02:56:32,550 --> 02:56:31,040
and this is the thing i've learned as a

4842
02:56:34,950 --> 02:56:32,560
journalist i'm a member of this group

4843
02:56:37,030 --> 02:56:34,960
called icij where we for example

4844
02:56:38,469 --> 02:56:37,040
investigated the panama papers the

4845
02:56:40,550 --> 02:56:38,479
leaked papers that showed who was

4846
02:56:42,389 --> 02:56:40,560
evading tax by having

4847
02:56:44,870 --> 02:56:42,399
tax shelters in the bahamas and other

4848
02:56:47,190 --> 02:56:44,880
places like that and we all collaborated

4849
02:56:49,190 --> 02:56:47,200
so there was a guy in belgium who could

4850
02:56:51,190 --> 02:56:49,200
do a property search for me in belgium

4851
02:56:53,830 --> 02:56:51,200
and i could do a lunch title search in

4852
02:56:55,750 --> 02:56:53,840
sydney and we could share data it's cool

4853
02:56:57,910 --> 02:56:55,760
it's a really cool thing to do

4854
02:57:00,950 --> 02:56:57,920
you guys can do this in the world of

4855
02:57:03,910 --> 02:57:00,960
uaps ufos you can share data

4856
02:57:06,150 --> 02:57:03,920
be intelligent don't just shove a bloody

4857
02:57:07,670 --> 02:57:06,160
video up and go oh look what i found i

4858
02:57:09,349 --> 02:57:07,680
beat everybody else to it by putting it

4859
02:57:11,750 --> 02:57:09,359
up here and then it immediately gets

4860
02:57:14,389 --> 02:57:11,760
shot down in flames

4861
02:57:16,630 --> 02:57:14,399
don't put it up there until you've

4862
02:57:17,990 --> 02:57:16,640
verified its provenance

4863
02:57:20,950 --> 02:57:18,000
if you can

4864
02:57:23,030 --> 02:57:20,960
so you know go to nasa get the data and

4865
02:57:25,590 --> 02:57:23,040
then put together a considered letter

4866
02:57:28,389 --> 02:57:25,600
dear senator

4867
02:57:31,590 --> 02:57:28,399
please find attached uh an mpv file or

4868
02:57:33,990 --> 02:57:31,600
whatever wv file which shows vision of

4869
02:57:36,950 --> 02:57:34,000
an object that was shot from the space

4870
02:57:38,150 --> 02:57:36,960
shuttle endeavour on blar date on

4871
02:57:39,590 --> 02:57:38,160
blah time

4872
02:57:41,429 --> 02:57:39,600
on this mission

4873
02:57:42,870 --> 02:57:41,439
i know this and i can verify this

4874
02:57:44,630 --> 02:57:42,880
because

4875
02:57:46,469 --> 02:57:44,640
this is the file number of where this is

4876
02:57:49,030 --> 02:57:46,479
stored in the nasa archive and i have

4877
02:57:52,309 --> 02:57:49,040
this proved copy of that data which i

4878
02:57:54,790 --> 02:57:52,319
obtained from nasa under foi

4879
02:57:56,710 --> 02:57:54,800
i put it to you sir that this shows an

4880
02:57:59,190 --> 02:57:56,720
anomalous intelligently controlled

4881
02:58:01,910 --> 02:57:59,200
object maneuvering in our orbit

4882
02:58:03,190 --> 02:58:01,920
and it is clearly a space vehicle of

4883
02:58:06,309 --> 02:58:03,200
some kind

4884
02:58:10,389 --> 02:58:08,389
can i please ask why this is not being

4885
02:58:11,910 --> 02:58:10,399
investigated if there is a legitimate

4886
02:58:13,590 --> 02:58:11,920
national security reason for why we're

4887
02:58:16,070 --> 02:58:13,600
not being told the truth about this can

4888
02:58:18,070 --> 02:58:16,080
this please be explained to me

4889
02:58:20,790 --> 02:58:18,080
i am representative of an organization

4890
02:58:22,710 --> 02:58:20,800
that represents 5 000 people um you know

4891
02:58:23,590 --> 02:58:22,720
maybe it's move on i don't know

4892
02:58:25,670 --> 02:58:23,600
uh

4893
02:58:27,830 --> 02:58:25,680
you know please sir kindly could i

4894
02:58:29,990 --> 02:58:27,840
request that you direct your questions

4895
02:58:32,070 --> 02:58:30,000
to this the next meeting of the nasa

4896
02:58:34,150 --> 02:58:32,080
oversight committee you know this is how

4897
02:58:35,830 --> 02:58:34,160
you do it

4898
02:58:37,830 --> 02:58:35,840
be respectful

4899
02:58:39,429 --> 02:58:37,840
you never know

4900
02:58:41,670 --> 02:58:39,439
the mood in the congress at the moment

4901
02:58:45,110 --> 02:58:41,680
is really interesting i'm talking to

4902
02:58:47,349 --> 02:58:45,120
congressmen senators and their staffers

4903
02:58:48,550 --> 02:58:47,359
they're waiting for

4904
02:58:50,550 --> 02:58:48,560
the public

4905
02:58:51,510 --> 02:58:50,560
to show they want this

4906
02:58:53,750 --> 02:58:51,520
because i don't think it's going to

4907
02:58:55,830 --> 02:58:53,760
happen i'm not of the view that there's

4908
02:58:57,910 --> 02:58:55,840
going to be transparency any more than

4909
02:58:59,269 --> 02:58:57,920
we've got at the moment i think we've

4910
02:59:02,469 --> 02:58:59,279
been sold a pub

4911
02:59:04,469 --> 02:59:02,479
i think that the uap task force

4912
02:59:07,990 --> 02:59:04,479
really only largely came about because

4913
02:59:09,429 --> 02:59:08,000
of the activism of the ttsa people

4914
02:59:11,110 --> 02:59:09,439
good people like louis lozando

4915
02:59:12,550 --> 02:59:11,120
christopher mellon

4916
02:59:14,309 --> 02:59:12,560
and tom de la

4917
02:59:16,389 --> 02:59:14,319
what he's done is amazing all credit to

4918
02:59:18,710 --> 02:59:16,399
tom frankly what he's done is absolutely

4919
02:59:20,230 --> 02:59:18,720
amazing he's brought this ahead far more

4920
02:59:21,269 --> 02:59:20,240
than i think anybody realized he ever

4921
02:59:23,349 --> 02:59:21,279
would

4922
02:59:24,870 --> 02:59:23,359
but there's nothing going to happen

4923
02:59:26,550 --> 02:59:24,880
there's certainly not going to be public

4924
02:59:28,790 --> 02:59:26,560
hearings or congressional hearings

4925
02:59:30,389 --> 02:59:28,800
unless the public make it clear

4926
02:59:32,630 --> 02:59:30,399
intelligently

4927
02:59:34,309 --> 02:59:32,640
and firmly that they do want it and that

4928
02:59:36,950 --> 02:59:34,319
these are the reasons why and these are

4929
02:59:38,790 --> 02:59:36,960
the things that should be investigated

4930
02:59:41,429 --> 02:59:38,800
so when people send me experience of

4931
02:59:44,070 --> 02:59:41,439
videos and say you know i've seen this

4932
02:59:46,710 --> 02:59:44,080
object hovering at 20 000 feet and all i

4933
02:59:48,309 --> 02:59:46,720
see is a white dot moving across the sky

4934
02:59:49,990 --> 02:59:48,319
what the hell am i meant to do with that

4935
02:59:52,950 --> 02:59:50,000
no no disrespect to the people that sent

4936
02:59:54,389 --> 02:59:52,960
it to me but seriously i can't verify

4937
02:59:55,510 --> 02:59:54,399
its provenance i don't know what you've

4938
02:59:58,550 --> 02:59:55,520
done with it

4939
03:00:00,630 --> 02:59:58,560
but let's think intelligently let's look

4940
03:00:02,950 --> 03:00:00,640
at the things that we know come from

4941
03:00:04,790 --> 03:00:02,960
government itself like for example the

4942
03:00:06,710 --> 03:00:04,800
nibitz sighting

4943
03:00:08,710 --> 03:00:06,720
you know we know for a fact that the

4944
03:00:10,150 --> 03:00:08,720
reason why the government's been forced

4945
03:00:12,550 --> 03:00:10,160
into the position that it's been paused

4946
03:00:15,510 --> 03:00:12,560
into at the moment it's largely because

4947
03:00:18,070 --> 03:00:15,520
of the um incredible work that was done

4948
03:00:20,550 --> 03:00:18,080
by different people to expose what was

4949
03:00:21,990 --> 03:00:20,560
revealed in the nimitz data

4950
03:00:25,830 --> 03:00:22,000
and the reason that why that was so

4951
03:00:27,110 --> 03:00:25,840
efficacious because there is clearly

4952
03:00:29,990 --> 03:00:27,120
vision

4953
03:00:33,190 --> 03:00:30,000
which was confirmed by sensor systems

4954
03:00:34,790 --> 03:00:33,200
and what i've been told uh bob fish who

4955
03:00:37,670 --> 03:00:34,800
was one of my informants that went on

4956
03:00:39,750 --> 03:00:37,680
the record in my book he's a guy with

4957
03:00:41,349 --> 03:00:39,760
extremely high security clearances who

4958
03:00:43,910 --> 03:00:41,359
is aware of the reality of the

4959
03:00:45,910 --> 03:00:43,920
phenomenon he's been briefed about

4960
03:00:47,349 --> 03:00:45,920
anomalous objects that have been seen on

4961
03:00:49,030 --> 03:00:47,359
satellites and

4962
03:00:50,070 --> 03:00:49,040
seen coming in and out of the ocean he

4963
03:00:51,670 --> 03:00:50,080
tells me

4964
03:00:53,910 --> 03:00:51,680
he told me that people should be looking

4965
03:00:56,469 --> 03:00:53,920
at the um

4966
03:00:58,630 --> 03:00:56,479
the data the the kind of data that would

4967
03:00:59,590 --> 03:00:58,640
be being collected by

4968
03:01:02,309 --> 03:00:59,600
um

4969
03:01:04,630 --> 03:01:02,319
the e2 hawkeye aircraft you're talking

4970
03:01:07,190 --> 03:01:04,640
about telemetry data um

4971
03:01:10,550 --> 03:01:07,200
not just radar data you're talking about

4972
03:01:12,630 --> 03:01:10,560
very high level uh electromagnetic data

4973
03:01:15,349 --> 03:01:12,640
communications data measuring the

4974
03:01:17,590 --> 03:01:15,359
frequencies of those objects

4975
03:01:20,150 --> 03:01:17,600
that telemetry data would exist and

4976
03:01:22,870 --> 03:01:20,160
nobody apparently has foider let's say

4977
03:01:27,510 --> 03:01:24,790
so there are ways of investigating this

4978
03:01:30,550 --> 03:01:27,520
in a in a rigorous scientific

4979
03:01:32,710 --> 03:01:30,560
objective way and as best i can i'm i'm

4980
03:01:34,309 --> 03:01:32,720
asking questions myself

4981
03:01:36,550 --> 03:01:34,319
but i am a little frustrated with the

4982
03:01:39,750 --> 03:01:36,560
tendency on ufo twitter for people to

4983
03:01:41,429 --> 03:01:39,760
seize across every new crazy rumor

4984
03:01:43,190 --> 03:01:41,439
and it's really not helping frankly it

4985
03:01:46,469 --> 03:01:43,200
just paints you all as a bunch of bloody

4986
03:01:48,309 --> 03:01:46,479
loonies and you're not i know you're not

4987
03:01:49,830 --> 03:01:48,319
you know there is something real there

4988
03:01:50,790 --> 03:01:49,840
the government's confirmed that it's

4989
03:01:53,190 --> 03:01:50,800
real

4990
03:01:54,790 --> 03:01:53,200
but by continuing just to post blurry

4991
03:01:57,269 --> 03:01:54,800
videos and

4992
03:01:59,670 --> 03:01:57,279
you know uncorroborable uh witness

4993
03:02:01,750 --> 03:01:59,680
accounts it's really not helping

4994
03:02:04,870 --> 03:02:01,760
what people need to do is become far

4995
03:02:07,670 --> 03:02:04,880
more methodical and clever

4996
03:02:10,230 --> 03:02:07,680
and and it's interesting because

4997
03:02:12,630 --> 03:02:10,240
if you look at your history

4998
03:02:14,870 --> 03:02:12,640
way back in the 1950s

4999
03:02:17,429 --> 03:02:14,880
the people who were driving the push for

5000
03:02:19,830 --> 03:02:17,439
disclosure the lou elizondos and the

5001
03:02:22,950 --> 03:02:19,840
christopher mellons of their day

5002
03:02:23,750 --> 03:02:22,960
they included people on nycap

5003
03:02:26,790 --> 03:02:23,760
like

5004
03:02:30,230 --> 03:02:26,800
roscoe hillenkotter a former director of

5005
03:02:32,389 --> 03:02:30,240
the central intelligence agency

5006
03:02:33,910 --> 03:02:32,399
why the hell was a former director of

5007
03:02:36,070 --> 03:02:33,920
the cia

5008
03:02:37,910 --> 03:02:36,080
actively pushing for disclosure by the

5009
03:02:39,750 --> 03:02:37,920
u.s government of what it knew about the

5010
03:02:42,550 --> 03:02:39,760
phenomenon

5011
03:02:47,510 --> 03:02:42,560
clearly he believed that the us was

5012
03:02:51,590 --> 03:02:49,590
and here we are

5013
03:02:53,750 --> 03:02:51,600
70 years later

5014
03:02:55,830 --> 03:02:53,760
and it's the same old cycle

5015
03:02:57,429 --> 03:02:55,840
so it's very very easy to think that it

5016
03:02:59,750 --> 03:02:57,439
might be possible that we're just being

5017
03:03:01,349 --> 03:02:59,760
bought off with another lame

5018
03:03:03,349 --> 03:03:01,359
promise that they're going to do some

5019
03:03:05,030 --> 03:03:03,359
kind of ufo oversight inside the

5020
03:03:08,150 --> 03:03:05,040
congress or inside the office of the

5021
03:03:10,309 --> 03:03:08,160
under secretary of defense intelligence

5022
03:03:12,870 --> 03:03:10,319
but that the the secret the real secrets

5023
03:03:14,309 --> 03:03:12,880
will be kept for another 50 to 100 years

5024
03:03:15,990 --> 03:03:14,319
i wouldn't be surprised at all if they

5025
03:03:17,510 --> 03:03:16,000
were because people aren't pushing

5026
03:03:19,590 --> 03:03:17,520
they're not using the powers that they

5027
03:03:21,910 --> 03:03:19,600
have in the congress to actually demand

5028
03:03:24,550 --> 03:03:21,920
that the congressman ask questions and

5029
03:03:26,070 --> 03:03:24,560
they need to ask arm their congressman

5030
03:03:28,150 --> 03:03:26,080
and congresswoman with the sort of

5031
03:03:29,590 --> 03:03:28,160
questions that need to be being asked

5032
03:03:31,910 --> 03:03:29,600
and they need to be intelligent

5033
03:03:33,750 --> 03:03:31,920
questions not dumb whack-up job

5034
03:03:35,590 --> 03:03:33,760
questions that make people sound like

5035
03:03:37,590 --> 03:03:35,600
loops

5036
03:03:39,110 --> 03:03:37,600
no no and try and limit the number of

5037
03:03:40,389 --> 03:03:39,120
stamps you put on the envelope because

5038
03:03:44,710 --> 03:03:40,399
if it's more than four stamps i

5039
03:03:48,230 --> 03:03:46,309
and sorry i'm not being flippant here

5040
03:03:50,710 --> 03:03:48,240
but you know the uh well i am being

5041
03:03:53,030 --> 03:03:50,720
clifford but i mean i i do think there's

5042
03:03:55,670 --> 03:03:53,040
a serious message here is that the

5043
03:03:57,830 --> 03:03:55,680
ufology needs to wake up to itself

5044
03:03:58,950 --> 03:03:57,840
it is right i mean people get angry with

5045
03:04:00,710 --> 03:03:58,960
um

5046
03:04:02,550 --> 03:04:00,720
skeptical questioning by people like

5047
03:04:04,870 --> 03:04:02,560
john greenwald of the black vult i'm a

5048
03:04:07,190 --> 03:04:04,880
fan of john i love what he does and he

5049
03:04:09,110 --> 03:04:07,200
he should be answering asking questions

5050
03:04:11,190 --> 03:04:09,120
you know and and mick west for example

5051
03:04:13,910 --> 03:04:11,200
god bless him the don quixote of

5052
03:04:15,990 --> 03:04:13,920
skeptics tilting at that windmill but

5053
03:04:17,990 --> 03:04:16,000
you know we need people like that it's

5054
03:04:21,110 --> 03:04:18,000
really important that that

5055
03:04:22,710 --> 03:04:21,120
the claims made be tested

5056
03:04:24,150 --> 03:04:22,720
and i've been pulled up on a few things

5057
03:04:27,110 --> 03:04:24,160
where people have said to me well how do

5058
03:04:28,710 --> 03:04:27,120
you know that you know they're using uh

5059
03:04:30,550 --> 03:04:28,720
the frequencies that they can detect

5060
03:04:32,150 --> 03:04:30,560
these objects by to bring them down

5061
03:04:33,670 --> 03:04:32,160
because i've recently talked about the

5062
03:04:34,710 --> 03:04:33,680
fact that

5063
03:04:36,790 --> 03:04:34,720
there is

5064
03:04:38,550 --> 03:04:36,800
stories that are uncorroborated that the

5065
03:04:40,950 --> 03:04:38,560
united states might be trying to think

5066
03:04:42,389 --> 03:04:40,960
about bringing down one of these objects

5067
03:04:43,349 --> 03:04:42,399
and even though i've said it a hundred

5068
03:04:45,030 --> 03:04:43,359
times

5069
03:04:47,190 --> 03:04:45,040
i don't know it

5070
03:04:48,790 --> 03:04:47,200
i don't but what i'm reporting is what

5071
03:04:50,950 --> 03:04:48,800
i've been told

5072
03:04:52,710 --> 03:04:50,960
and sometimes maybe it's not a good idea

5073
03:04:54,630 --> 03:04:52,720
to report those things maybe it's better

5074
03:04:57,030 --> 03:04:54,640
just to keep your mouth shut let's deal

5075
03:04:58,790 --> 03:04:57,040
objectively with what we do know

5076
03:05:02,150 --> 03:04:58,800
what we do know is that there is a

5077
03:05:04,230 --> 03:05:02,160
phenomenon that is unexplained

5078
03:05:06,070 --> 03:05:04,240
and it's been admitted to be unexplained

5079
03:05:08,070 --> 03:05:06,080
by the most powerful country on the

5080
03:05:10,070 --> 03:05:08,080
planet

5081
03:05:11,990 --> 03:05:10,080
there are objects that appear to be

5082
03:05:13,110 --> 03:05:12,000
intelligently controlled craft that are

5083
03:05:15,990 --> 03:05:13,120
maneuvering

5084
03:05:17,830 --> 03:05:16,000
hypersonic maneuvers

5085
03:05:20,070 --> 03:05:17,840
they're capable of doing all manner of

5086
03:05:22,150 --> 03:05:20,080
weird things

5087
03:05:24,469 --> 03:05:22,160
and the government admits

5088
03:05:26,630 --> 03:05:24,479
it's real

5089
03:05:28,230 --> 03:05:26,640
that's a pretty good start for people to

5090
03:05:30,710 --> 03:05:28,240
start writing to their congressman and

5091
03:05:33,429 --> 03:05:30,720
demanding action

5092
03:05:35,030 --> 03:05:33,439
demanding oversight hearings

5093
03:05:36,870 --> 03:05:35,040
and one of the things that they'll be

5094
03:05:39,349 --> 03:05:36,880
very very sensitive about is the

5095
03:05:42,469 --> 03:05:39,359
questions about the black budget

5096
03:05:45,190 --> 03:05:42,479
because really in the last 30 years not

5097
03:05:48,309 --> 03:05:45,200
much has come out of area 51

5098
03:05:50,230 --> 03:05:48,319
and yet trillions of dollars have been

5099
03:05:52,469 --> 03:05:50,240
spent in the black budget

5100
03:05:55,030 --> 03:05:52,479
where u.s taxpayers if they actually

5101
03:05:56,790 --> 03:05:55,040
added it all up have no bloody idea

5102
03:05:58,309 --> 03:05:56,800
where their money's gone

5103
03:05:59,429 --> 03:05:58,319
there are literally

5104
03:06:01,510 --> 03:05:59,439
dozens

5105
03:06:03,750 --> 03:06:01,520
hundreds of black projects where money's

5106
03:06:06,550 --> 03:06:03,760
been sunk into things and the public

5107
03:06:08,790 --> 03:06:06,560
haven't been told what it was for

5108
03:06:10,550 --> 03:06:08,800
now for all their faults

5109
03:06:12,309 --> 03:06:10,560
the one thing the generals are worried

5110
03:06:14,389 --> 03:06:12,319
about the one thing the people spending

5111
03:06:16,389 --> 03:06:14,399
the money are worried about is having to

5112
03:06:18,309 --> 03:06:16,399
account for that money

5113
03:06:20,630 --> 03:06:18,319
and believe me

5114
03:06:22,070 --> 03:06:20,640
when the questions asked they will have

5115
03:06:24,070 --> 03:06:22,080
to answer

5116
03:06:26,070 --> 03:06:24,080
so it's the good old political maximum

5117
03:06:28,630 --> 03:06:26,080
the will that squeaks gets to greece if

5118
03:06:29,910 --> 03:06:28,640
you want action to happen you have to

5119
03:06:31,830 --> 03:06:29,920
become

5120
03:06:32,790 --> 03:06:31,840
it's not enough just to bleat on social

5121
03:06:34,150 --> 03:06:32,800
media

5122
03:06:36,150 --> 03:06:34,160
not going to work

5123
03:06:38,550 --> 03:06:36,160
if you've got the time to sit down and

5124
03:06:40,070 --> 03:06:38,560
pin some poisonous venom on social media

5125
03:06:41,910 --> 03:06:40,080
for half an hour

5126
03:06:43,590 --> 03:06:41,920
why not just sit down and find out the

5127
03:06:44,950 --> 03:06:43,600
name of your political representatives

5128
03:06:47,190 --> 03:06:44,960
and write to them

5129
03:06:48,950 --> 03:06:47,200
and say this matters to you

5130
03:06:51,349 --> 03:06:48,960
and i'm not crazy

5131
03:06:53,349 --> 03:06:51,359
you know i'm a i'm a doctor or a lawyer

5132
03:06:54,950 --> 03:06:53,359
or a businessman and i actually think

5133
03:06:57,510 --> 03:06:54,960
that there is something really serious

5134
03:06:59,030 --> 03:06:57,520
behind this phenomenon and i want you my

5135
03:07:01,349 --> 03:06:59,040
political representative to take it

5136
03:07:03,830 --> 03:07:01,359
seriously i want transparent open

5137
03:07:06,710 --> 03:07:03,840
hearings in the congress and if not why

5138
03:07:08,070 --> 03:07:06,720
not and this will affect my vote

5139
03:07:12,550 --> 03:07:08,080
end of letter

5140
03:07:13,429 --> 03:07:12,560
i like that okay ross thank you so much

5141
03:07:15,670 --> 03:07:13,439
you've

5142
03:07:17,190 --> 03:07:15,680
been extremely generous with your time

5143
03:07:18,790 --> 03:07:17,200
i'm gonna say goodbye to the audience

5144
03:07:20,070 --> 03:07:18,800
and then we'll just speak for a minute

5145
03:07:22,389 --> 03:07:20,080
off air

5146
03:07:24,230 --> 03:07:22,399
sure lovely to talk to you

5147
03:07:26,230 --> 03:07:24,240
goodbye everyone thank you so much

5148
03:07:28,230 --> 03:07:26,240
there's been i think a thousand people

5149
03:07:30,950 --> 03:07:28,240
at its max and it's been hovering at

5150
03:07:31,990 --> 03:07:30,960
around 850 people constantly so thank

5151
03:07:33,910 --> 03:07:32,000
you

5152
03:07:34,710 --> 03:07:33,920
i'm gonna stop the stream and then ross

5153
03:07:36,550 --> 03:07:34,720
let's

5154
03:07:38,630 --> 03:07:36,560
talk

5155
03:07:40,230 --> 03:07:38,640
i asked ross to give me three steps that

5156
03:07:42,389 --> 03:07:40,240
those who are interested in the ufo

5157
03:07:44,150 --> 03:07:42,399
phenomenon can take in order to get the

5158
03:07:45,990 --> 03:07:44,160
government to release more information

5159
03:07:48,150 --> 03:07:46,000
on this topic

5160
03:07:50,630 --> 03:07:48,160
he sent me seven steps

5161
03:07:52,469 --> 03:07:50,640
here they are number one pick an issue

5162
03:07:54,630 --> 03:07:52,479
pertaining to uaps that offer an

5163
03:07:57,190 --> 03:07:54,640
opportunity to perhaps independently

5164
03:08:01,349 --> 03:07:57,200
verify or debunk the claims made about

5165
03:08:04,469 --> 03:08:01,359
it for example in the case of sts-48

5166
03:08:06,389 --> 03:08:04,479
that is the 1991 shuttle mission there's

5167
03:08:08,389 --> 03:08:06,399
been a plethora of claims on the

5168
03:08:10,550 --> 03:08:08,399
internet with debunkers saying it's

5169
03:08:12,150 --> 03:08:10,560
clearly ice and the conspiracists

5170
03:08:14,309 --> 03:08:12,160
asserting its et

5171
03:08:16,230 --> 03:08:14,319
number two to the end of resolving the

5172
03:08:17,830 --> 03:08:16,240
matter assess whether it adequately

5173
03:08:19,830 --> 03:08:17,840
explains all the issues raised by the

5174
03:08:21,990 --> 03:08:19,840
evidence in this case i've read the

5175
03:08:22,950 --> 03:08:22,000
popular science explanation by james

5176
03:08:24,469 --> 03:08:22,960
oberg

5177
03:08:26,309 --> 03:08:24,479
but nothing adequately addresses the

5178
03:08:27,990 --> 03:08:26,319
flash of light you see at a considerable

5179
03:08:31,190 --> 03:08:28,000
distance from the shuttle

5180
03:08:35,910 --> 03:08:33,269
number three

5181
03:08:37,990 --> 03:08:35,920
let's obtain the original data in this

5182
03:08:40,309 --> 03:08:38,000
case it would be nasa's own vision and

5183
03:08:43,190 --> 03:08:40,319
the other data james oberg cites in his

5184
03:08:44,950 --> 03:08:43,200
paper number four assess the data and

5185
03:08:46,950 --> 03:08:44,960
see if there are unanswered questions

5186
03:08:49,670 --> 03:08:46,960
remaining if there are unanswered

5187
03:08:51,510 --> 03:08:49,680
questions then number five write a

5188
03:08:53,990 --> 03:08:51,520
polite and careful letter to your

5189
03:08:55,990 --> 03:08:54,000
congressman congresswoman

5190
03:08:57,990 --> 03:08:56,000
setting out why you believe this is an

5191
03:08:59,910 --> 03:08:58,000
unresolved mystery that is worthy of

5192
03:09:02,550 --> 03:08:59,920
official engagement by your political

5193
03:09:04,630 --> 03:09:02,560
representative number six if this letter

5194
03:09:06,309 --> 03:09:04,640
gets ignored publish your research

5195
03:09:08,230 --> 03:09:06,319
efforts online and show people the

5196
03:09:10,630 --> 03:09:08,240
efforts you've made to verify the

5197
03:09:13,110 --> 03:09:10,640
reality behind the observed phenomenon

5198
03:09:15,910 --> 03:09:13,120
this is extremely important this is

5199
03:09:17,830 --> 03:09:15,920
kurt's note now this step is the most

5200
03:09:20,070 --> 03:09:17,840
important because otherwise we'll have

5201
03:09:21,429 --> 03:09:20,080
people saying well look i've reached out

5202
03:09:22,790 --> 03:09:21,439
well what's your evidence that you've

5203
03:09:24,229 --> 03:09:22,800
reached out you're asking for them to

5204
03:09:25,830 --> 03:09:24,239
provide evidence how about you provide

5205
03:09:28,070 --> 03:09:25,840
some evidence that you've actually done

5206
03:09:31,030 --> 03:09:28,080
the work and have filed let's say an foi

5207
03:09:33,110 --> 03:09:31,040
claim or have sent a physical letter to

5208
03:09:35,110 --> 03:09:33,120
a congressperson then ross says that the

5209
03:09:37,910 --> 03:09:35,120
number seven step which is the last step

5210
03:09:43,429 --> 03:09:37,920
is move on to the next claim best wishes

5211
03:09:47,190 --> 03:09:45,429
the podcast is now finished if you'd

5212
03:09:50,309 --> 03:09:47,200
like to support conversations like this

5213
03:09:54,469 --> 03:09:50,319
then do consider going to patreon.com

5214
03:09:57,030 --> 03:09:54,479
c-u-r-t j-a-i-m-u-n-g-a-l

5215
03:09:58,870 --> 03:09:57,040
that is kurt jaimungle it's support from

5216
03:10:00,710 --> 03:09:58,880
the patrons and from the sponsors that